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Unread 06-18-2019, 10:06 AM   #1
TileStuff
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Roman tub replacement.

Done the ensuite (Thanks for all the help CX, Davy, Wolfgang, Jim, Dan, and Kevin, to name a few!). Time to tackle the main upstairs bathroom, with a disgusting old tub I've been using as a construction washup area.

I've been looking at inserts to replace the tub, but it seems there are tubs meant for showers, where the tile goes over the tub on two or three of the sides, and then tubs with a lip all the way around that don't look like they are meant to be in a shower, just used as a tub. Since my tub doesn't have one full open wall, I don't know that a shower tub will fit properly? I hope I'm making some kind of sense here.. hopefully the photo will help explain. With one end of the tub extending passed the wall, being covered on all sides, I don't know if I could make a proper tile to tub transition?
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Unread 06-22-2019, 06:55 PM   #2
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Hi Jesse,

Tear it out. Redo it as a roman tub or put a floor in and make a conventional shower out of it. Don't mess with inserts.
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Unread 06-23-2019, 02:12 PM   #3
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Thanks for the response John. I'll look into doing another Roman tub but I'm not sure I want to go that route from what I've seen people here saying about them (seems quite difficult).

Would like to still have a tub though, rather than converting to a shower.

Just found this product, anybody have experience with this or something similar? Seems like it would solve my problem, I could get a regular 72" drop in tub and then just install the tile flange where I need it.

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/maa...kit/1000143641
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Unread 06-23-2019, 08:40 PM   #4
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I would tear it all out and try to find a tub that has a flange already made on the tub.
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Unread 06-24-2019, 01:48 PM   #5
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I don't think any tub will have a built in flange to go around all three sides on the one end of the tub sunken into the wall though.
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Unread 06-24-2019, 02:19 PM   #6
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How does that Home Depot flange seal to the tub surface I don't understand this? What's in that little pop out feature next to that tub that's causing this problem?
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Unread 06-24-2019, 06:50 PM   #7
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What Jessie said, something will have to be done about the third wall. May even have to fur out the wall to fit the tub.

I've never installed one, Teddy but I believe epoxy is used to bond it.
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Unread 06-25-2019, 06:30 AM   #8
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I'd probably try to use a drop in, then fur all the walls out above the rim so that the tile is held back from the inner edge of the rim by a minimal amount, no more than 1/4". Since the rim will probably be at least an inch wide, probably more, it should give you enough space to bond Kerdi to it to create a seal.

Will require some very accurate measuring and framing, and probably some compromises in adjoining wall surfaces.
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Unread 02-28-2020, 02:29 PM   #9
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I couldn't decide what to do about this so I put it off in favour of other projects, but the time has come!

I leaning to just redoing as a Roman tub, more labour but less cost, and better looking. Insert would also require drain relocation and would be finicky getting something to seal around the edge, problems more likely.

When I did the shower stall I went with a conventional pan and cement board with redguard on the walls. I've seen some videos of people doing Roman tubs with liquid membrane but it makes me leery, how many folks here trust liquid membrane in a roman tub? I was thinking maybe I'd try the kerdi or equivalent membrane product for this project, at least for the tub portion. How well would it work though, for compound angled inner corners, like the bottom of the tub has?

Just fixed the paddle bit on the hammer, about to go have some "fun".
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Unread 02-29-2020, 09:17 AM   #10
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What are we looking at in post 1, are the tiles still installed in that picture or are we looking at concrete that once had tiles installed? What about the drain, what's it look like and how would a membrane connect to it?

I wouldn't want to fold a sheet membrane over that surface.
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Unread 02-29-2020, 11:21 AM   #11
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Tiles still installed in post #1, got a bunch off and the floor up yesterday.

Went through this thread yesterday as well:

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.p...-method.82787/

Looks like the biggest problem with the Roman tub plan is the drain. I'm not going to be paying $600 for a custom unit, and looks like the kerdi isn't good for submerged applications anyway. Maybe I will just do a shower stall?

If it's as simple as getting a drain that bonds to liquid membrane like you would use for a shower stall, but one that has a stopper, and you basically make the curb higher and have a tub, then I'm in. Doesn't appear to be that easy though.

I'll post some more pics when I get all the tile off. Kinda surprised, when I demoed the old 70's shower stall the waterproofing method was a layer of fiberglass over plywood, was built very solid. The bath though, has no waterproofing, just tiles on drywall. Only found one little spot of water damage so far though.
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Unread 03-04-2020, 01:07 PM   #12
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Doing some more reading about the drain, seems to be the sticking point. Divot method with a conventional stopper drain would be an option, but there must be a way to make a liquid membrane drain work with a stopper?

A lot of hate out there for Roman tubs. Is all the talk about how difficult it is based on the old liner days? Seems like raising the curb and reinforcing, switch the drain for a stopper unit, and liquid membrane like normal wouldn't be much harder than a shower stall. What am I missing?

Still flip-flopping between shower stall and tub, Help me decide what to do with this thing!

P.S. What drain should I use if I go the shower route? Having trouble finding a liquid membrane drain at homedepot. This video shows a guy using what looks to be a drain for clamping on a fiberglass shower, then I guess he just covers the lip with redgard? Is this acceptable? I went with the 3 piece and liner on my first build, but I'd like to try a newer method on this one.

https://youtu.be/djHl-ckOe-Y?t=228

Edit# 2: Looks like the only proper bonded flange options are the same kind of drain you use for a sheet membrane? So Laticrete/Kerdi/Noble kind of drain? Looks like this is my cheapest option if that's the case:

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ali...el-/1001209689

Does anybody use the really cheap drain like the guy in the video? Seems like it might not have enough boding area. Spending another $60 on the drain to skip the liner and extra mud bed is already worth it anyway.
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Unread 03-04-2020, 04:33 PM   #13
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The Kerdi is approved for submerged applications, just not with the regular thinset application. In Europe, Schluter markets a product called "Kerdi-Coll." That in conjunction with perhaps more overlap should give you a waterproof application. I am not sure if this product is available here in the US. You might want to call Schluter and ask them about their recommendation.
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Unread 03-04-2020, 07:43 PM   #14
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Jesse, first question I'd ask myself when considering trying to re-use that tub (very briefly consiering) would be, "Will I actually use the tub?" The I there would, of course, include any of the household members.

I've had many requests over the years to remove a tub and replace it with a walk-in shower or just make it go away, but never once had a request to install a tub where none had been before.

Looking at your current tub, I can't imagine being able to fold a sheet-type direct bonded waterproofing membrane to fit the shape and make waterproof seams. Just not gonna happen. I like to think I've gotten pretty capable with those products and I wouldn't even try it.

That would leave you with only liquid-applied membranes and I don't know of one I would trust in that application. Might work with one that used a reinforcing fabric over 100 percent of the surface, but I'd be skeptical even then.

If you really, really want a tub in that same space, I'd recommend removing what you have, making what would effectively be a walk-in shower and make a high curb across the opening. Again, use a sheet-type direct bonded waterproofing membrane and a bonding flange drain. Any shower curb higher than 9 inches is considered a tub, by the way.

While the Kerdi membrane may not be manufacturer approved for submerged applications, I do know that back in the day (2005ish?), when Dave Gobis was running the CTEF, any number of cardboard boxes were converted to test vessels/drink coolers by applying Kerdi to the interior of the box. At least one of the boxes was filled for years, if I'm recalling correctly, but at least many months, and Dave would occasionally add a little soap or other cleaning product to make the test more realistic. And the same box, or one of the similar ones, would be filled with ice and drinks to be used by the attendees. And I believe this was before Schluter started offering the pre-made corner pieces. All fold-your-own back then.

It can be done. Good idea to try it in your application? Up to you.

I've heard of the Kerdi-Coll, but have never seen or touched any, despite having been to a small handful of Schluter seminars. Might be worth trying to get some if you elect to continue with the tub project.

Were I to do what I described above I'd want to use the USG Shower System membrane. Thinner, easier to fold, makes better overlapped seams.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-04-2020, 08:34 PM   #15
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If you're gonna go back with a roman tub, I'd find the drain first and use the membrane that will work with it.

I wouldn't have a problem using a paint on membrane such as Hydroban. The fabric is a must.

I don't like the drain in the YouTube video.
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