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Unread 05-28-2019, 10:27 AM   #16
jadnashua
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Most homes flex with the seasons as temperatures and humidity levels cause things to move. All of that is concentrated at those changes of plain. Grout might work, might not. An engineered profile joint works, too.
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Unread 05-28-2019, 11:46 AM   #17
makethatkerdistick
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I've had someone tile my tub surround five years ago (before I started doing tile work myself). She grouted the changes of plane. They are now starting to crack.


Let me fix that for you, Jim:
Quote:
ALL homes flex with the seasons as temperatures and humidity levels cause things to move.
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Unread 05-28-2019, 01:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed51133
Maybe you can find "some guy" that grouts it, but I highly doubt that person is on this forum.
I would be one of those guys, Mike, and I've actually been on this forum for some time.

When I learned to build showers, they were all done with mud walls and mud floors and I learned to grout all the joints in them. When I later learned that it was more correct to use silicone sealant on the change-of-plane joints, I also learned that it didn't look good and customers didn't particularly like it. I went back to grouting (or having grouted) all such joints and telling customers that the joints might crack a little, but it wouldn't affect their shower at all. They liked that better than the silicone sealant.

These days, with the advent of accurately color-matched sealants in satin and sanded finishes, I could be swayed to treat my change-of-plane joints more properly in some cases. But even after going from mud showers to direct bonded waterproofing membranes over drywall or CBU walls, I'm still inclined to grout the floor/wall joints.

I do, of course, still tell our visitors that the correct procedure, per tile industry standards, is to use a flexible sealant in those joints.
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Unread 05-28-2019, 02:15 PM   #19
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CX, I am shocked! You are typically very pro industry standards, TCNA book, manufacturer recommendations, etc.

I guess I should never make blanket statements about what others may or may not say......
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Unread 05-28-2019, 05:21 PM   #20
makethatkerdistick
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CX, does the type of grout ever influence your decision to grout (or not grout) changes of plane? Cement-based, epoxy, acrylic grouts etc. I assume you would not grout the transition between tub and tile. Or would you with a cast-iron tub?

My house's slab sits on expansive clay soil, so I never entertained grouting such joints in the first place.
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Unread 05-28-2019, 07:26 PM   #21
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Wolfgang, I've never done one of my own showers with epoxy grout, but with both cementitious and the new acrylic grouts I have been known to grout the corners, Tile Ranger be damned.

The gap between the tub and tile in a tub/shower application has been a pet peeve of mine for thirty years or more. Grouting that gap doesn't work out well, even with cast iron tubs, but I still do not favor a continuous application of flexible sealant in that joint. Water will eventually gather behind there and with direct bonded waterproofing it will get to be a problem. I've long recommended at least leaving some gaps in the sealant for drainage, but even that doesn't comply with industry standards. I have known some folks from California who spoke of the same problem in one of the industry technical committee meetings and said they were trying to get that changed out there. Don't know if anything has ever come of it.

I now climb down off my soapbox and yield the thread back to it's rightful owner. With my appologies for the distraction, Ronny.

My opinion, worth price charged.
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Unread 06-03-2019, 06:22 AM   #22
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CX, no apologies necessary. I greatly appreciate your input. My interest is in getting honest feedback, preferably from those with hands-on experience.

Today I begin the grouting. TEC 650 AccuColor Premium Sanded Grout. Starting with the ceiling (fun! ), then moving down the walls. When that's done and cured I will set the floor and curb tiles.

Regarding anyone's doubt that there is any "debate" regarding this topic off grout vs. caulk, I offer this thread I found:
https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...t+grout+shower

And thanks again. I appreciate all responses.
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Unread 06-03-2019, 07:09 AM   #23
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That wasn't really a debate. It was also pretty specific to floated, fat mud walls.
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Unread 06-11-2019, 11:11 AM   #24
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Setting mosaic tile non shower floor...grout?

Because I'm setting the shower floor tile on the Kerdi membrane, Im using DitraSet thinset cement (unmodified, per instructions). I want to know if it is a good idea to make use of the cement that oozes between the tiles as grout. The DitraSet is white. This is not a problem because the wife wants white between the tiles on the shower floor, whether it is cement or grout. I am inclined to go for it. What say y'all?
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Unread 06-11-2019, 11:39 AM   #25
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Setting mosaic tile on shower floor...grout?

Because I'm setting the shower floor tile on the Kerdi membrane, I'm using DitraSet thinset cement (unmodified, per instructions). I want to know if it is a good idea to make use of the cement that oozes between the tiles as grout. The DitraSet is white. This is not a problem because the wife wants white between the tiles on the shower floor, whether it is cement or grout. I am inclined to go for it. What say y'all?
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Unread 06-11-2019, 12:06 PM   #26
speed51133
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I'd say no, and that is a horrible idea. The fact that you have enough thinset oozing out to double as grout means you are either pressing the tiles way too hard, using way too much thinset, using the wrong notched trowel, simply doing something wrong, or a combination of the above.

But who knows, maybe there is a debate on that too!?
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Unread 06-11-2019, 12:25 PM   #27
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"Pressing too hard,... Way too much thinset,... Wrong size trowel,..." I hear you loud and clear. However,... The mosaic tiles I am setting on the shower floor are two inch and one inch diameter, and are set on backing material that is either paper or plastic, I don't know. Here's my thoughts: Given the already small surface area of the individual tiles largely covered by the backing material, using the cement that oozes up around them, (which would be a horrendous cleanup process), as grout would go a long way to adhering the tiles in place. It would be using the tile edges as a bonding surface. The DitraSet cures and strengthens via hydration, therefore with use of the shower the tile setting will only get stronger. I'm not looking to create a debate or be argumentative. this makes sense to me and I am interested in other thoughts.
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Unread 06-11-2019, 12:31 PM   #28
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I wouldn't use mortar in place of grout. If it was that easy, the manufacturers would be all over it. There's a reason they're not.
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Unread 06-11-2019, 04:05 PM   #29
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Ronny, if you want to do something like that I'd recommend you look into one of the grout/additive products some setting material manufacturers have for just that application. It uses one of their specific cementitious grouts with their specific additive as the bonding mortar for setting the mosaic tiles and also acting as grout. I know Laticrete has such products and I presume other manufacturers do as well.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 06-11-2019, 06:06 PM   #30
jadnashua
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Thinset mortar usually ends up with different characteristics from a grout...less dense and potentially more porous.

As CX said, though, there are some grouts that can be used as mortar, too, which could save a step.
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