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Old 12-30-2004, 10:29 AM   #1
YouRockDaddy
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Question Travertine Installation Method?

We are planning on installing about 1000 square feet of travertine (Versailles Pattern (French Pattern), Chiseled edge, with Grout) over Concrete, and was wondering the best installation method.

Most Travertine I have seen installed is 18" square, honed and filled and installed butted together, and it's set with a Sand and Cement (float).

But is that the but install for Versailles Pattern, Chiseled edge, with Grout?

If I can get away with it, I'm trying to avoid having large transitions between the Travertine and Carpet or the Travertine and door thresholds.

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Old 12-30-2004, 11:49 AM   #2
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The pattern doesn't necessarily dictate the method of installation. What does matter, though, is the flatness of the slab and whether the slab has any cracks or coatings that have to be addressed. Have you inspected the slab yet?

Also, how much room (height) do you have to work with, and how thick are the tiles?
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:25 AM   #3
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I'm not sure how flat the slab is, but it is a post tension slab so there are not cracks.
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Old 12-31-2004, 06:34 PM   #4
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What Bob said, you should be able to do a thinset job, this will hold the thickness down. The slab will need to be free from paint, texture or anything else. A post tension slab doesn't mean they are crack free. Use a membrane over all slab cracks.

I'm not sure but the chiseled edge might look better with a slightly bigger joint with sanded grout. This would make it easier to install. Others can comment on that. Answer Bob's questions.
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Old 12-31-2004, 07:05 PM   #5
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Question Post Tension

Just what is a post tension slab? I know what pre-stressed concrete is but never heard of this one before.
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Old 12-31-2004, 08:46 PM   #6
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It's when they run cables thru the slab, 3 to 5 ft apart each direction. There isn't any (or very little) rebar used. The cables are in a plastic sleeve and are extended thru the forms. After a day or two of being poured they tighten up the cables with a machine.

I remember about 10 years ago talking to a concrete man about Post Tension, asked him if it was any good. He said he had seen or heard of a demonstration where they poured a slab, tightened the cables and then they undermined a section of the slab so it didn't have any support under it. Then they took a Cat bulldozer and run it out onto the slab and it didn't break. I think it's a good system but sometimes the cables come loose.
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Old 01-01-2005, 02:20 AM   #7
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Geez, what'll they think up next?

Thanks, Davy
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Old 01-01-2005, 04:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy
What Bob said, you should be able to do a thinset job, this will hold the thickness down. The slab will need to be free from paint, texture or anything else. A post tension slab doesn't mean they are crack free. Use a membrane over all slab cracks.

I'm not sure but the chiseled edge might look better with a slightly bigger joint with sanded grout. This would make it easier to install. Others can comment on that. Answer Bob's questions.
1. What type of membrane? Also, would you just that metal mesh stuff?
2. I was planning on having it set with grout line and a sanded grout, like the picture above, but maybe not quite as wide of spacing between tiles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcamp
Also, how much room (height) do you have to work with, and how thick are the tiles?:
Do you mean how much do I have between the concrete and say door thresholds? I really have plenty. I was really just wonder of all that sand and cement under butt-jointed traverine is really necessary for the type of travertine I planning on putting down. As far as the stone thickness I really don't know exactly as I have not purchased it yet, but I think it's about 3/8 of an inch thin.
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Old 01-01-2005, 05:28 PM   #9
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You can set the travertine with thinset. I would use white. However with the Versailles pattern the stone size will dictate the grout joint. For instance, you can use any size grout joint with a sqaure tile. But with 4x8 pavers if you lay one horizontally and two vertically below even with the outside edges of the top tile the distance between the two in the center, usually 3/8 - 1/2" is the necessary joint size on that pattern. Same with the Versailles pattern. If the tiles come 24x16, 16x16, 8x16, and 8x8, then tey have to be butted up. You could always cut them down but who would want to go through all that. They look the best butted up. You might want to check the particular sizes on the tiles ahead of time.
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Old 01-01-2005, 05:42 PM   #10
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Just a point of information - the tiles aren't always the "full" stated size. Sometimes they say it is a 12" tile, when it is 11.75 or so (figuring in a grout joint as part of the full square). As noted, double check the actual size of the tiles.
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Old 01-01-2005, 05:54 PM   #11
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Hi Mac, Welcome. Give us a first name, please.

To check on the calibration of the various tiles you can dry lay a few pattern repetitions and figure your joints that way. You'll be using sanded grout in any case.
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Old 01-01-2005, 07:14 PM   #12
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My first name is Marc.

I believe the sizes are 8x8, 8x16, 16x16 and 16x24
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Old 01-01-2005, 07:38 PM   #13
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Hi Marc, there are several membranes that will take care of slab cracks. I use alot of Semco, it's a trowel on membrane. Red gard can be used but might take two applications. CIM 500 is Dal Tiles membrane, it's a peel and stick membrane as well as Protecto wrap. Those are the ones I'am familiar with. Others can add to the list.
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Old 01-01-2005, 08:41 PM   #14
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Hi Marc. First of all welcome to the Forum.

In post #9 Jerry brings up an important point I want to make sure doesn’t get lost, that being the actual stone size(s) will dictate the spacing. See the picture below for illustration. These Travertine tiles are laid in the Versailles pattern but in this case the tiles are sized such that they must be butted together. This is the “butt install” you mention in post #1. Just be aware you cannot alter/increase the spacing on these tiles without throwing the entire Versailles pattern alignment off.

Conversely in the example picture you posted, it would appear those tiles are sized for something close to 3/16” spacing. Again whatever spacing they are sized for, it cannot be altered – without re-cutting each tile that is.

So if you are purchasing tiles sized for a “butt installed” Versailles pattern just be aware that for all practical purposes there is essentially no room for grout and each butt joint will become a dirt trap.
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Old 01-01-2005, 08:49 PM   #15
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Yep, the pattern will dictate the joint size. Even with the stone you pictured Mike, I think a guy could still make the layout for about a 1/16 joint and with the chiseled edge use a sanded grout. What cha think?
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