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Old 08-05-2018, 12:07 PM   #46
houndzilla
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I’m in the Chicago area, so I know there’s gotta be some out there. Just gotta find them. No luck at the ones I’ve called.

Good to know about thinsetting. Nothing from the MFR cutsheet states it needs to be done.
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:43 PM   #47
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I actually think an 8 ft straight edge is long enough if you're being very picky.
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Old 08-30-2018, 10:40 PM   #48
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Just about wrapped up putting down my ditra-heat-duo. I'm using Schluter Allset for it.

Couple observations:
  • While the bag says 5.5-6.5 quarts of water, it also states for membranes to mix it loose enough that it can still hold a notch. What does this mean, can you go above that for membrane embedment?
  • Ditra-heat-duo likes to have thinset burned in before setting down on combed thinset. I got much better coverage/thinset transfer this way.
  • 100 lb linoleum roller, or any kind of roller is a must if you want to put this stuff down and not worry about adhesion
I've already take a cursory look at my wires and I'll be digging in to them more tomorrow to do all the megger testing on them.

The questions that I have:
  • I've bugered up some joints between the panels, I plan on knocking the thinset loose since it doesn't stick. How worried should I be about an errant piece of hardened thinset mucking up my wires? I'm gonna vacuum the mat before I start laying wire regardless, just curious on how vigilant I should be about that.
  • pre-fill waffles after wire is in? Yay or nay?
  • I read something on here about sensor wires not using the conduit for the floor heat wire in the wall? Can they go free air in the stud cavity?
After much debating I picked up a Montolit tile cutter, this thing is a beast.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:22 AM   #49
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I had the same concerns during my bathroom build. I used the regular Ditra heat not the duo though; similar but thinner.
1- be fairly vigilant about getting the thinset out of the grooves for the wires. It only takes a small bit to bump the wire out of the groove and it will sit up above the plastic surface. You donít want the insulation getting chaffed.
2- some pre fill, some donít. I did in the area near the room entrance as it would be trafficked a lot. The problem is to protect the wires during tile install but not wind up with crumbly bits of thinset flaking off the heat membrane. With an area as large as yours, youíll be going in and out a bit. I used some sheets of Masonite to cover the foot traffic areas and under me while tile setting. Helps to prevent crushing the little stadiums. I kept the megger attached while tiling as well as an ohmmeter and kept glancing at the them until all the tile was in. Yes, Iím a worrier.
3- you cant have line voltage and low voltage circuits in the same conduit. (Technically you can, but itís not code). All non-wall or plenum rated wire entering a line voltage box should be in conduit. You can look at my Ditra heat adventure at: https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...=121365&page=4

I took pictures of where the wires were with tape measures so Iíd have a record just in case I wanted to drill some holes in there later for stuff. Also used thick magic marker to lay out the do not wire areas around where cabinets would go and clearance from heat registers and walls and toilets and such.
I canít say for the Allset, but I did have to go a bit wetter with the Versabond to get it well embedded.
Lookiní good so far!
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:03 AM   #50
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When mixing thinset, you donít want to go above manufacturers range for water. When they call for a loose mix, itís about using the upper or topmost value in the acceptable range.
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:09 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houndzilla
1 the bag says 5.5-6.5 quarts of water, it also states for membranes to mix it loose enough that it can still hold a notch. What does this mean, can you go above that for membrane embedment?
I asked my ardex rep that same question once. Here was his answer. "You can mix it up as wet as you want as long as you don't put more water than the maximum amount".
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:12 AM   #52
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Going back to thinset water mix, as I'm curious now.

AllSet spec sheet for membrane embedment to mix thinset loose, but still able to hold a notch. The upper water range of AllSet on the bag is far from loose.

With regards to shear strength, AllSet is modified so it has ~3x the shear of unmodified (per the spec sheet). So it has overhead to give up if you overwater.

Regardless, Duo wants to be backbuttered. That seems to be the only way you'll ever get those full embedment peaks when you peel it back at the MFR water level.


Anyway, I tested my heat cable, installed, retested, and hooked up a loudmouth. All values tested well. I'm gonna start layout tomorrow and schlep a couple 1000 lbs of tile downstairs.

-LFT tiles, rectified Italian porcelain. I've only brought one down, but it appears to be perfectly flat. I'll have to test with others, but I'm hopeful. tested tile is 12x48, main tiles are gonna be 8x48. What size trowel? 1/2" x 1/2" square?

-Any suggestions for setting the first tile? Since these are wood look I was planning to set them like wood planks. Start at wall, get square, figure my spacing and layout, do a whole strip then continue.


-I'm using MLTS lippage tuning system to try and get everything as flat as possible. With planning to do whole lengths at a time I'll need to dig out little slots in the thinset for future placement. Right?


-What happens if I clip a heat wire while combing thinset out? Am I done, or can it be repaired?


-I'm shooting for a random length offset that is within 1/3 of a tile. Any tips other than just do the math and mockup what I think will look good?

-the loose wires in one of the photos are my radio input and phone charger, not heat cable or sensors
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:54 AM   #53
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Nothing?
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:39 PM   #54
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You have a lot of questions, George that don't have cut and dry answers.

Yeah, check more than one tile. Put two tiles face to face and see how much they rock. A 1/2 inch notch might be about right but a 3/8 might do. Skim coat the backs with a flat trowel or I've found a 6 inch putty knife works well for this. I set up a small table or saw horses to do this. Having someone skim coat for you will speed things up.

I would pop some lines parallel to the longest wall. Running the floor with random lengths, you only need to pop lines one direction.

Can't help on the leveling systems. Not worth the trouble in my opinion. With a flat floor, setting the tiles with 1/3 offset or less will help more with lippage than any leveling system. Again, my opinion. Lots of installers use them.

I like to fill the waffles first with thinset using a flat trowel and come back and set the tiles over that. But that's up to you. Filling the Ditra helps protect the wires, not completely but it does help. Clipping a wire is not an option, you have to be careful.

I like the random length layout. Don't over think it, just use left over cuts to start your next row. You'll probably need to go cut a tile here and there to start the next row to avoid lining up joints from previous rows. Not a big deal, you'll use the left over piece somewhere. You'll have less scrap when running random lengths.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:16 AM   #55
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Thanks for the response Davy I appreciate it, I know they were mostly open ended questions. Just trying to fill any gaps in knowledge or anticipate things that aren't commonly talked about.


I'm gonna use the 1/2"x1/2" just to give myself some wiggle room, I'm running very close to my ceiling being exactly 7'0" AFF, so I have to be mindful of thinset thickness.

I've checked over a dozen tiles now for flatness, they are flat. The worst I've found is a few warped tiles (short edges are twisted relative to each other). Those ones seem to come into line pretty well when pressure is applied.

I've run the width layout three different ways and I've settled on the one that seems to give me the least variation in the last row, my walls are out of square about 1/4". I've taken note of the length in critical areas so I can at least think ahead and not leave slivers of tile in highly visible areas. I have 4 parallel walls to my long edge in my layout and it seems I won't have any slivers on any of them. I bought some 12" wide tiles for the off chance of there being any sliver width cuts.

I've decided to not prefill my waffles, I dunno, maybe I'll change my mind after the first bag or two of thinset. Maybe I'll comb the tile instead of the floor.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:03 AM   #56
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Making progress...


Everything is going pretty well but slow mainly because I don't have frequent large chunks of time that will allow me to mix and set much more than one or two 1/2 bag batches at a time.


The random pattern is working out well with the 1/16 grout joints. I have a couple tiles that I wasn't able to take the twist out of so I have maybe a credit card amount of lippage in a couple areas, but feeling it underfoot with no grout doesn't feel like a big deal. But for the most part these things are flat.



I'm going to the trouble to wash the grout release off, it's a big hassle especially as the weather is getting colder as I'm washing outside due the size of the tiles.


I'm putting in expansion joints that basically frame the large room using Mapesil T. It's a ~19'x12' area. A couple feet longer than what Schluter recommends for a heated floor, but I'm on a stable concrete slab, with no direct sunlight. I know it's not technically correct but I can't imagine placing a joint in the middle or near the edge of the room.


Prefilling as I go seems to be working out well as it gives me very little thinset waste. I've been notching out spaces for my lippage clips as I go, I find it allows me to work and comb faster rather than having to work around them.


I've pulled maybe a 1/2 dozen tiles to check for coverage and I've been good on all of them. The suction on these large tiles is tough to break.


I'm planning to grout with Mapei Flexcolor CQ. Joints have been brushed out oozing mortar, some need a little cleaning up to get the diluted thinset off the surface.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:23 PM   #57
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Coming right along.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:41 PM   #58
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I see this is too late for your project, but funny story about that water mixture thing.

I also mixed 6.5 QTs which was max for All-Set. Guess what, very thick. Not nearly loose enough to install membrane. I'm guessing this is the same thing you experienced?

Schluter territory rep says the quantity listed on the bag is only for setting tile and to do 7-7.25 QTs for membrane. This confused me because it goes against everything I've read (as people have posted above). I tried 7 quarts exactly, and the consistency came out as you see in their install videos.
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Old 10-17-2018, 06:01 AM   #59
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IIRC the head honcho Schluter guy at the seminar pointed to the back of the bag and said for membrane application use the high number for water amount and use the low number for tile application.

I did come across an All-Set pdf that reads: 7.5 - 8.5 qts for Schulter membranes and 5.5 - 6.5 qts for tile installation. Its dated 02/2018, not sure if its from an old formula or not.
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:30 AM   #60
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I'm two rows away from reaching the opposite wall shown in the earlier posted picture. My layout worked well and I only have to trim about 1" off the tile. The large snapper I have can easily make the score, but I'm finding it needs about 2-3" of cutoff for the snapper to do it's job properly.

What would be the appropriate way to hand snap this tile once I make a large score on it? Would tile nippers be appropriate, channel locks, block of wood underneath the score and dead blow mallet?


Quote:
edc901
I see this is too late for your project, but funny story about that water mixture thing.

I also mixed 6.5 QTs which was max for All-Set. Guess what, very thick. Not nearly loose enough to install membrane. I'm guessing this is the same thing you experienced?

Schluter territory rep says the quantity listed on the bag is only for setting tile and to do 7-7.25 QTs for membrane. This confused me because it goes against everything I've read (as people have posted above). I tried 7 quarts exactly, and the consistency came out as you see in their install videos.
I actually made several batches of thinset at this water level when I was setting my mat, and I found this to be just about optimal re: membrane embedment.
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