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Unread 03-09-2012, 02:49 PM   #16
cx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
sorry, but I don't think that was even a valid test to show anything.
Pay no mind, John, they say the same thing about all my tests, too.
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Unread 03-09-2012, 02:54 PM   #17
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now painting something and then blowing it up, that would be a different story
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Unread 03-09-2012, 04:46 PM   #18
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Primer

Cx, the primer is to be used when lightweight concrete and gypcrete. Fiber boards are not included in this, as i read it.

We used the same trowel and used the same technique for applying both membranes. As far as meeting industry standards, we did not measure the thickness or either one. It was just a field test more than a labratory test. We just wanted to see how the products worked and again when they were taken apart. It is true once they are painted on correctly, there should not be that much movement to cause issues, but i sure want to get the most bang out of the buck and sleep at night.
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Unread 03-09-2012, 05:53 PM   #19
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When I called Custom's tech support(few times) was told to use the "primer" first on the Hardieboards. Used the "old" formulated Redgard. Just saying.

Editing: Video was very interesting. Thank you.

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Unread 03-09-2012, 06:22 PM   #20
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Each case is different and there may be instances where our technical service department will recommend a primer coat. It is not generally required on CBU, but is recommended for gypsum and lightweight cement underlayment. The primer is a simple dilution of 1 part RedGard and 4 parts water. This penetrates quickly, seals the pores and is soon ready for the full coats.

Using a trowel does guage the material on the surface.

I would be concerned with movement at the change of planes. The floors and walls can be strengthened, but the independent movement of the two planes in relation to each other is more unpredictable.
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Unread 03-09-2012, 06:51 PM   #21
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How much time went by before destructive tests? I hope at least 72 hrs...
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Unread 03-09-2012, 06:58 PM   #22
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Water everywhere

Hello all!

Made me say "Huh"...

Kudos for taking the time and effort; I love stuff like this. Learnin' is good!


1.5cents worth follows

A. The test does seem to make quite an argument for RedGuard as a crack isolation membrane.
Indeed, if that much movement is present there are much larger issues at hand.

B. From what I've been reading in this forum most installers seem to be more interested in the waterproofing properties of the membranes; which is obviously not what you were testing.
I would love to see a side-by-side flood test of both products.


I've been using Hydroban on horizontal planes (pans,seats,insets,etc) and 6"-8" up the wall and RedGuard on walls to find a happy middle ground between performance (Hydroban) and cost (RedGuard).

It was my understanding that the original RedGuard was not approved as "Waterproofing".

If memory serves... Several years ago when more liquid membranes began gaining popularity in my area there was a landslide of confusion regarding the proper approved uses of different products. Many were not approved as water"proof" (e.g pan liner) only water resistant (e.g. walls).

The old RedGuard would turn bright pink, re-emulsifying, when water was left standing on it, thus giving one pause to its water"proof"ed-ness.
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Unread 03-09-2012, 07:32 PM   #23
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I think any membrane will change color when wet. A true test would be to paint some on aluminum foil, let dry, peel off, and submerse.
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Unread 03-09-2012, 07:35 PM   #24
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Welcome, Chris.

If you're in the tile trades at some level, lease put some information into your User Profile so folks can see what sorta person they're havin' this conversation with, eh?

I must be too young to remember when RedGard was not advertised and tested as a waterproofing membrane. How long back you talkin' here?

John, I see now the new RedGard specs (on the new CBP website) do call for the primer only on gypsum based material.

And I think Dana's question goes to the point that if either product were not applied in accordance with its manufacturer's recommendations, even though it was a side by side test it may be less valid for one product or the other. And even though your test was designed only as a comparison and not to any standarrd, I think his point has merit.

Steve, do I understand correctly that y'all consider notching the RedGard to be a method of gauging the thickness even when it is immediately troweled over with a flat trowel, rather than allowing the notched coat to dry first?
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Unread 03-09-2012, 11:23 PM   #25
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Well it shows redguard works well for crack isolation. Its cheaper too which makes it a better option for that. I have painted hundreds of floors with it.

But I still prefer hydroban for waterproofing. I have seen redguard (fully dried) get pink and sticky when i spilled water on it. yikes.
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Unread 03-10-2012, 04:59 AM   #26
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Thank you john very good video. seems like there are pros and cons to each product. I didn't like how the red guard peeled so easily but it seemed to have more elasticity to it.
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Unread 03-10-2012, 05:56 AM   #27
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John,

My Custom's Rep told me about your testing some time ago. I am glad you posted your test here for further comment and evaluation.

I thought you build your showers with mud and then coat them with Hydraflex?

Anyhoo the Rep told me the new formula dries faster and comes with a red lid to identify the old from the new.

At this point in time have you used RedGuard to fully waterproof any showers? Do you flood test? Just curious how the waterproofing aspect of the new formula is working.

Last question. A lot of guys on this site use liquids to fully waterproof their showers, but don't you think membranes are a safer bet, especially when your running crews?

Take care!
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Unread 03-10-2012, 07:33 AM   #28
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Regard

John K,
You were correct in us using Hydra Flex. That was probably 3-4 years ago when we could get The product. They have had a vacum of product and service. It got a little old trying to persude them to have distribution, which we still do not have. We have switched to Redgard as I am confident in what will meet our needs and concerns. Just FYI we let both products dry for 5 1/2 hours. We did coat the 2" x 2" with the respective products and fill them with water. Both of them held water to a degree, then started to leak. Sufficient time had not elasped for them to be fully cured. We sprayed water on the walls and the Hydroban lightened in color where as the Redguard stayed red and did not lighten. Again this was not a scientific test, but i have learned a lot from it. FYI J.C.
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Unread 03-10-2012, 07:35 AM   #29
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Redgard

John K,
I went back and read your post again and realized i had not answered part of your question. Yes we are using Redgard for our showers, balconies and crack Isolation.
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Last edited by jcsa; 03-10-2012 at 07:36 AM. Reason: spelling
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Unread 03-10-2012, 07:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by custombuilt
Well it shows redguard works well for crack isolation. Its cheaper too which makes it a better option for that. I have painted hundreds of floors with it.
are you buying the RedGard to use since you don't know about FractureFree or can you not get it?

Heck, even Laticrete HydroBarrier is cheaper then RedGard and I use that for both waterproofing and a crack membrane.
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