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Unread 06-10-2009, 06:34 PM   #1
wildmtnhoney
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Mel's master bathroom project

Hello! Newbie here, hoping to get some outside input and thoughts before we go any further on our master bath! Hubby and I are semi-experienced DIY'ers, but our previous tile jobs were "get it done quick!" types, not "get it done right" jobs. I know you know the difference

Here's the quick (I hope) overview. Addition was tacked onto old house. Addition goes from deep basement, to 2nd level. Master suite takes up top level. Umm, I think from reading you guys like to know about support - manufactured I-beams, hubby and I did all the plumbing and electrical ourselves, used the knock-outs, never notched, so we know it's a solid base.

Bought a tile ready shower base, 46x60, with a 4" curb. Framed in a bench w/2x4s. Covered walls and bench in vapor barrier, then durock. We are just starting to put Hardibacker on the floor (subfloor is tng ply). There is already in-floor water heat, so we're using short 1inch nails and, and....I think it's modified thinset? To attach hardibacker to subfloor. It came in a tub pre-mixed from HD. I don't have it in front of me.

Ok, so questions off the bat.

I have read all the love for kerdi, but obviously we didn't use it. How much do I need to worry about the nail holes we put in the vapor barrier when we put the durock up?

I bought some redgaurd thinking I'd put it on the floor, over the hardibacker, below the tile. Can I/should I use that on the nail holes?

Should I use the redgaurd on the floor, do I need to?

I see you all recommend staying far away from pre-mixed when we go to lay tile, where in HD do I look to find the dry/mix it myself thinset? I live in dry CO (although this year, it isn't as dry as it usually is!) so I worry about it drying out as we work.

Also, there is a window in the shower. It is a 24"x24" aluminum clad- so the interior is wood (umm, I did that, I ordered all the addition windows at once, never really thinking that one of them would be *in* the shower). It is set about 4ft high on the wall. I was just going to stain and seal the wood w/polycrylic - am I in for a world of hurt w/that?

And, the tile we picked out has a very pretty corner peice, can I use that to frame my window? We're thinking of framing it out w/durrock (addition built on 2x6, not 2x4, so the window wells are deep) then tiling, and I'd love to frame it out all purdy.

I don't have any pics on the pc yet, will get some though so you can see what I'm talking about.

TIA!!

I don't have any pics on the pc right now, can get some soon.

Oh, and so far so good w/inspections, all we're waiting on is final!
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Unread 06-10-2009, 07:49 PM   #2
Davestone
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Okay,first,the vapor barrier is no good on that bensh,and just covering the nails with Redgard won't do either.And we're not supposed to waterproof over something with a vapor barrier.Sooo,in order to waterproof that bench you'd need to take off the board,and remove the vapor barrier wherever you'd be waterproofing, which would be the bench, face of the bench, and about a foot above it and on both sides of it.In fact for second floor baths i almost always waterproof my whole showers.
Now for the floor cbu,you shouldn't use premix under the board, you should use a cheap sanded thinset you mix with water.And are you planning on waterproofing the floor?If so just covering the nails won't work, you'd ned to do the whole flor and 6 inches up the walls,with membrane at the L wall juncture.
The window will probably leak,i would get a plastic one in one piece.
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Unread 06-10-2009, 07:59 PM   #3
wildmtnhoney
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Thanks Dave.

I wasn't sure if I needed to waterproof the floor, but I guess because it's a second floor bathroom, I was thinking I might want to, just in case - but maybe that's overkill? My nails comment was only regarding the shower/bench.

Ok, bummer on the bench, but better now than a leaky bench later. So, if we stay w/durock, we'll take it all off, remove vapor barrier, then replace w/new durock, and then redgaurd over the durock? I know I'll hear someone (or many!) suggest drywall and kerdi, not sure I can convince dh to go that way, though, will have to talk costs/benefits, etc.

got pics coming, will post 'em next
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Unread 06-10-2009, 08:01 PM   #4
wildmtnhoney
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Oh, I also wanted to ask - where will the window likely leak? Is it going to leak down into the wall of the shower?
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Unread 06-10-2009, 08:05 PM   #5
Davestone
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The problem is a moisture sandwich,don't know if Kerdi over what you have will eliminate that,hate to see you do all the extra work, you could get by with just fixing the bench area,you could actually just waterproof over the area i won't tell.
The windows i've fixed have leaked into the wall,soaking the insulation and rotting the studs, and usually leading to carpenter ants and termites here.
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Unread 06-10-2009, 08:25 PM   #6
wildmtnhoney
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Quote:
you could actually just waterproof over the area i won't tell.
Thanks for keeping it a secret! Besides, the vapor barrier is already compromised

On the window. Hmmm, gonna have to keep thinking on this one, it's a purdy window, and it matches the ones in the closet and in the area where the claw-foot tub will be. Thinking about this specific window - from the exterior, it is only about a foot above the old house's roof, and there is just insulation in the attic. So any water that got down there wouldn't just sit- it'd dry pretty quick wouldn't it? There is no vapor barrier between the old attic and the new exterior wall. Not that I want water leaking into my attic, just thinking out loud a bit because I'd really rather keep it. Oh, and it's a casement, opens out, so it's providing some circulation in the shower too. Only real good news is carpenter ants don't like CO, we're too dry and too cold.

Having technical difficulties w/pics, really are coming soonish
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Unread 06-11-2009, 07:46 AM   #7
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Alright, have some pics (although next time I might have to use my wide-angle, bathroom feels tighter when you're trying to photo it!)

Here's the shower bench. The shower head will be on the left hand wall (that I somehow manged to not get a pic of - but it left hand wall also has 2 niches. Yes, the drain is off-center to the left, closer to the shower head - placement was dictated by joists.


This is the shower window, although right now there' left over vapor barrier over it.


This is the area the clawfoot tub will go in. We had to remove some durock and move plumbing height (I changed my mind on fixtures) so you can see what we have going on behind the durock on this side. The clear plastic on this side is what we have from 3ft up around the shower. Below 3ft, and down behind the shower pan liner, and over the bench we have thicker, grey "pan liner" under the durock - you can see some color changes in it, from where we had to sweat pipe when changing fixture heights.


eta, please forgive my messes, we are using the adjoining bedroom to cut trim for other windows, so there is dust everywhere, and I had just finished painting the ceiling and bathroom walls, so all extra stuff kinda got tossed in the shower out of my way.
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Unread 06-11-2009, 08:09 AM   #8
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How did you run the pan(red gaurd) up walls? I see the durock over the top of it and in the corner by the bench that screw looks really low. Should have no penitrations through the pan lower than 8" from ground. With emulsion type pan I do all tilebacker on walls and then paint over all for moisture barrier and extra coats and fabric in pan itself. In this scenerio moisture barrier is on outside of tilebacker not over framing.
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Unread 06-11-2009, 08:25 AM   #9
wildmtnhoney
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Hey, thanks for chiming in!

The red pan is tile ready pan, no redgaurd. There is grey pan liner (kind sold at HD) under the durock, behind the pan flange. I think the screw you mention is the one on the closest edge of the bench? That surely did puncture the the grey pan liner, yes, but not the pre-made tile ready red pan, it goes into a 2x4 that is framing that stub wall on the far right. And, umm, thing are pretty dirty in there so you might be seeing "marks" that are really screws/nails in the pic.

Now a new question, what sort of prep work do I need to do to the durock before I coat w/redgaurd? After I clean it all up (do have a blushing smilie?) Do I need to tape and put thinset on all seams first?
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Unread 06-11-2009, 01:46 PM   #10
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Just a bit more specific info. The red pan/base is by Tile Basin, epoxy resin w/embedded mesh and primed w/showerseal, ready to tile right onto it.
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Unread 06-11-2009, 03:27 PM   #11
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Yes, tape and thinset joints and all inside corners.
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Unread 06-12-2009, 08:22 AM   #12
wildmtnhoney
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Excellent, thanks!

However, I can't give this window up without fighting for it Soooo...The window is for standard 2x4 construction, so there are about 2 inches (without measuring) between the factory window edge, and the interior wall. My thought is to frame those 2 inches, all around w/durock or similar. Then, I could slightly built up the edge closest to the wood, or shave the edge, so that there is a small slope down to the shower? I guess what I'm trying to determine, is how wet is a window that is set a little above head-height going to get, (guess I'll have to consider condensation, too?) and is there anything I can do to keep this wood-clad aluminum casement window in my shower enclosure?
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Unread 06-12-2009, 08:59 AM   #13
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Your plan to slope the sill is OK, as far as it goes. Since the window is above head height, it probably won't receive a lot of direct spray. Condensation is still an issue. You could prime and paint with a high quality oil-based enamel and hope for the best, or bite the bullet and replace it with an all-vinyl window or glass blocks.
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Unread 06-18-2009, 12:14 PM   #14
wildmtnhoney
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Thanks again for all the window input.

New question!

What makes a tile unsuitable for the shower floor, or shower in general?

And, specifically, will the marazzi tile sold a HD (click for link to HD's page on tile I'm considering) work for my shower?

I'm thinking 2" shower floor, 12" bathroom floor and 12" again 3ft up the shower wall, then a deco stripe including some 2" cobalt glass around 3ft up, and 6" tiles on diagonal above the stripe, maybe another strip of the cobalt glass at the very top (glass is from a different tile store).

We've already purchased a few boxes of the 12" just to play w/layouts on the floor, but everything is returnable
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Unread 06-18-2009, 01:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD's spec sheet on tile
Water absorption is less than 0.5% and is impervious to water.
Find this on your tile's data sheet, and you're golden.
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