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Unread 02-06-2008, 12:48 PM   #1
smelander
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First time shower builder, help!

I have had a fix me up house but the bathroom for the most part was not touched, so what I am trying to say is I am handy but have never worked on a bathroom. We are now in a new house and I am looking at finishing a basement bathroom and have some questions;

1. The shower 2" ABS, pre-plumbed, capped, drain is already in place but when they put the concrete floor in the left an 8" hole around the drain about 4" deep. I have Tile Crete to make the shower pan. Do I fill the 8" gap with the tile crete when making the pan?

2. The floor is also a little high at the drain. Do I make a level layer of tile crete and then add more tile crete with a slope to the drain at 1/4" per foot? And is it rounded because the drain is not centered or is there straight lines from the corners in(it is set for a 48 wide shower and we are making the full width of bathroom at 60")?

3. At what point do i cut the pre-plumbed drain and put the actual drain in?

4. Now for the curb. I plan on puting in shower sliding doors. How deep and high does the curb need to be and what am I measuring from (top of pan or concrete floor)? Do I consider the size of tile I am using for the depth of the curb to make a perfect fit versus cutting pieces?

5. With regards to the shower doors the room before dry rock is 60 1/2" wide. If I find a shower door that fits, great, but i doubt that will happen. So if I find a smaller door and need to come in from the walls how do I do that?

6. I think this may be a stupid question, but the dry rock goes on the walls on top of the shower pan, right? (Not behind the shower pan)

7. Do you "mud" the seams on a dry rock? I have Red Guard waterproofing for the shower pan and walls.

8. Another dumb question, Do you use dry rock from ground to ceiling or do you stop at the top of the tile and use sheetrock from the top of the tile to the ceiling?

I appreciate your advise and any tricks of the trade you can offer.

SM
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Unread 02-06-2008, 03:27 PM   #2
John Bridge
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Hi SM, Welcome aboard.

1. I don't know what tile crete is, but any cement product will work for filling the hole.

2. Do some reading in our Liberry and then ask questions if you still need help with that.

3. Ditto.

4. Ditto.

5. If you use sliding doors you can buy them ready-made in that size. You trim the ends of the top and bottom rail to make them fit your finish opening. If you want a swinging door, you'll need to get a custom made one.

6. No, that's wrong. Again, check out the Liberry.

7. Yes.

8. I assumed when you said dry rock you meant sheetrock. I guess dry rock must be cement backer board? Yes, you can switch to sheetrock at that point.
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Unread 02-06-2008, 03:35 PM   #3
scuttlebuttrp
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5. Just worked with my mother-in-law on her shower doors. All the ones at HD and Lowes seemed to fit openings between 54"-59". So after you hang the CBU and then tile; you should fit easily into that range.
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Unread 02-06-2008, 04:53 PM   #4
Maack
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8" hole around 2" ABS

uhhhh,,,unless I'm missing something here,,,,isn't that 8" hole(around that 2" waste line) opening left there because you would need to have room to accommodate the drain assembly, before you fill the hole in????
hope that helps?

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Last edited by Maack; 02-06-2008 at 08:03 PM.
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Unread 02-13-2008, 12:09 AM   #5
smelander
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Sorry, now i have spent some time in the liberry and still have questions

Sorry guys, right after I created my thread I went to the liberry and started reading.

1) Tile crete is the name brand of the floor underlayment material. Described to me at the store as a sand material. So will this work in the 8" whole around the 2" drain?

2) I am assuming the underlayment material will be OK in the 8" hole which is 4" deep. Now the link i found in the liberry "How to float a Shower Floor Pre-Slope -- by Harry Dunbar" it shows the first step as tapered mortar bed, then the water proof liner, then the another mortar bed. Being i am doing mine on a concrete floor in the basement and after talking with the tile shop I planned on doing this as two steps, mortar bed sloped to drain at 1/4" per foot and then using red guard for the water proofing, is that OK? The total thickness at the drain should be 1 1/4" thick and then thicker at at the edges, right?

3) If the above is OK, do i put the cement backer board up first so the shower pan is built second? I read somewhere so the water can't be absorbed into the backer board.

4) Ok I saw the shower curbs you had for the most part as 3 2x4's on top of each other, so on so forth...do you have to use the 2x4's or can you just use the mortar bed?

5) Niches, I saw lots of threads with issues on niches but nothing from the get go on how to frame/build a niche? Can you either direct me to the thread or can you tell me how to do it? I am guessing to frame it was a hortizontal 2x4 and the use cement backer and red guard to seal it? What do i use on the back side vertical? It would be against cement foundation blocks.

6) I was reading in "Hometime How To Bathrooms" and they recommended thinset for horizontal surfaces and mastic for vertical surfaces. With that they recommended smooth side out of the cement backer board for mastic and rough side for thinset. I have seen threads that talk about using thinset instead of mastic for vertical surfaces. Can you give me some advice on this topic.

7) How about tile floors: In the "Hometime" book above they show laying cement backer board on the floor before laying the tile. Again this is gonig on a cement basement floor. Do i need a sub floor? I would also like to put in an electric heat floor coil in.


Thanks again for any and all help given.

Scott
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Unread 02-13-2008, 07:06 AM   #6
John Bridge
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Hi Scott,

Take a look at the Kerdi shower before you decide on the liner or RedGard.

Find the waterproofing products at Schluter, then look for shower systems. http://www.schluter.com
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Unread 02-13-2008, 10:25 AM   #7
smelander
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Too late on the Kerdi

John- Unfortunately I already bought the red guard and the store I bought it at doesn't do returns!?

So am I ok using the red guard? And can you help me with my other questions?

Scott
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Unread 02-13-2008, 10:41 AM   #8
bbcamp
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Quote:
1) Tile crete is the name brand of the floor underlayment material. Described to me at the store as a sand material. So will this work in the 8" whole around the 2" drain?
Yes.

Quote:
2) I am assuming the underlayment material will be OK in the 8" hole which is 4" deep. Now the link i found in the liberry "How to float a Shower Floor Pre-Slope -- by Harry Dunbar" it shows the first step as tapered mortar bed, then the water proof liner, then the another mortar bed. Being i am doing mine on a concrete floor in the basement and after talking with the tile shop I planned on doing this as two steps, mortar bed sloped to drain at 1/4" per foot and then using red guard for the water proofing, is that OK? The total thickness at the drain should be 1 1/4" thick and then thicker at at the edges, right?
The problem with this method is the lack of a solid connection between the drain fitting and the paint-on membrane.

Quote:
3) If the above is OK, do i put the cement backer board up first so the shower pan is built second? I read somewhere so the water can't be absorbed into the backer board.
Some backerboards can wick water so it's best if there is a gap between the bottom of the board and the liner. Of course, this assumes that you place a setting bed on top of the liner. Your plan doesn't do that.

Quote:
4) Ok I saw the shower curbs you had for the most part as 3 2x4's on top of each other, so on so forth...do you have to use the 2x4's or can you just use the mortar bed?
The mortar bed will be made from a very weak form of concrete that isn't suitable for forming into a curb. Besides, the 2x4 curb is build so you can wrap the liner around it.

Quote:
5) Niches, I saw lots of threads with issues on niches but nothing from the get go on how to frame/build a niche? Can you either direct me to the thread or can you tell me how to do it? I am guessing to frame it was a hortizontal 2x4 and the use cement backer and red guard to seal it? What do i use on the back side vertical? It would be against cement foundation blocks.
Frame it with 2x4s like you suggest, line it with backerboard, including the back (you can use silicone or construction adhesive to attach it to the blocks), the waterprooofing it with Redgard.

Quote:
6) I was reading in "Hometime How To Bathrooms" and they recommended thinset for horizontal surfaces and mastic for vertical surfaces. With that they recommended smooth side out of the cement backer board for mastic and rough side for thinset. I have seen threads that talk about using thinset instead of mastic for vertical surfaces. Can you give me some advice on this topic.
Yes, stick () with a modified thinset for all the tilework. No need for 2 separate products. Use spacers to hold the tiles in place until the thinset cures.


Quote:
7) How about tile floors: In the "Hometime" book above they show laying cement backer board on the floor before laying the tile. Again this is gonig on a cement basement floor. Do i need a sub floor? I would also like to put in an electric heat floor coil in.
No, you don't need backerboard on the floor. The heating system is adhered to the floor with modified thinset. You may have to use hot-melt glue to hold the wires/mat while you spread the thinset.
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Unread 02-13-2008, 07:58 PM   #9
smelander
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Thanks!

Thanks Bob for the help!

I tried again today to return the RedGuard, and I was able to return it. I was amazed when I was at HD it was $30 cheaper!! The concern at the tile shop is if Red Guard gets cold it isn't good anymore and here in the dead of Minnesota winter I undersatand their concern.

Anyhow I am now off to start the shower, hopefully I won't have too many more questions!

Now if i do Kerdi, how do i do the niches?

Thanks again,
Scott
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Unread 02-15-2008, 09:33 AM   #10
smelander
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First layer done, question on the curb

Hey guys I was able to return my red guard and got pan liner instead. So the mortar bed is done . It has dried for 24 hours. I am getting ready to install the liner, and then the second mortar bed. I have two questions first:

1) for the liner around the drain what kind of sealant do you recommend?

2) One of the links in the liberry uses cement for the curb and the other uses mortar mix that is "fat". What is the difference and what one is better or should i use?

Thanks in advance.

Scott
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Unread 02-15-2008, 10:32 AM   #11
bbcamp
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1) just about any kind of caulk can be used. A thin bead near the outer edge is all you need. Too much, and you risk clogging the weepholes.

2) To be clear, cement is the stuff in mortar that makes it get hard. Different mortars use different amounts of cement, sand and other aggregates, and maybe lime, to perform different tasks. For the curb, go with mason's mortar (brick mortar). It's the same thing as "fat mud" the old time tile guys talk about. It's cement, sand and lime (to make it stick).
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