Kerdi shower without Kerdi drain

[stouff93]

I had a new shower plumbed and the plumber connected the new shower drain to the waste line in the floor before I discovered the Schulter products, but this is where all work stopped. I like the idea of only have to do one mortar job for the shower preslope and then Kerdi over top of this before setting the tile. I'm converting a closet into a bathroom and the closet has nicely finshed sheetrock walls already, saving me considerable time not have to pull it off and apply cbu.

Can I used the Kerdi membrane on the shower floor and walls even if I'm not using the Kerdi drain?

Thanks,
Eric

[Mike2]

It seems like this question has come up before and someone might have figured out a way to do it. It was someone who didn't want to spend the $80 - $90 for the Kerdi drain. Can't remember the outcome but maybe someone else can.

The Kerdi shower is a system where a mutual dependency exists between the component parts. I'd be leery to mess with that system, especially to try to dicky-do up another drain to it.

What type of drain did the plumber set Eric? A three part clamping drain for a conventional PVC or CPE liner shower, maybe with the flange for the clamping ring set tight to the sub-floor?

[stouff93]

Correct on the drain, we bought the drain and CPE liner at Lowe's. I have the pan liner here at my main house and it is Oatey brand, the same I believe for the drain. The plumber wanted to just lay the liner down on the bare floor, no mortar preslope, he said that's old school. The new shower is at a second home 300 miles away, the plumber is very good, just not the person to do the tile prep and final tile set. Very hard and frustrating to try and manage a remodel with such distance between me and the tradesman, I knew there was no way the line goes down without a mortar bed. I am a confident diyer, not a newbie, having done tilework on other properties. Just want to make sure I have all the info/specs before proceeding, either by myself or with a tile contractor.

[Mike2]

OK, that helps. At least we know what kind of drain to deal with. I honestly don't know of a way to make it work but like I said, maybe someone else can chime in with a plan.

Myself, I'd remove the existing drain and extend a riser up from the p-trap to accomodate a Kerdi drain and git on with the project.

[sailfishoney]

Originally Posted by stouff93

Correct on the drain, we bought the drain and CPE liner at Lowe's. I have the pan liner here at my main house and it is Oatey brand, the same I believe for the drain. The plumber wanted to just lay the liner down on the bare floor, no mortar preslope, he said that's old school. The new shower is at a second home 300 miles away, the plumber is very good, just not the person to do the tile prep and final tile set. Very hard and frustrating to try and manage a remodel with such distance between me and the tradesman, I knew there was no way the line goes down without a mortar bed. I am a confident diyer, not a newbie, having done tilework on other properties. Just want to make sure I have all the info/specs before proceeding, either by myself or with a tile contractor.

the pan material goes down first it runs up the walls no less than 6 inches, the durrock goes on the wall over the shower pan material it also goes under the curb, this keeps moisture out, the shower pan material goes to the drain and then you screw the drain or drain extention to the threaded . then you mix 3 shovel full of white sand and 1 shovel full of portland cement. now i run skrets about 3 inch from all walls, pack it good so it looks tight and squared of let it dry only on large jobs on small i will pack it tight and run it just under you wall tile. oh course he puts the wall tile up firstmake sure your setter does this 1st then pack the floor and giving it a pitch so the water will drain out. tile gal wishing you luck

[Bill Vincent]

It's not actually the depth from the bottom of the pan that determines how far up the liner will go up the walls, but rather the height from the top of the curb, which is 2".

[John Bridge]

Hi Eric,

If you want to use the Kerdi system you must use the drain. It's the only drain on the market that will allow a surface connection to the surface membrane. No other way, buddy.

On the other hand, follow Bill's advice on the CPE liner and drain.

Check out the Schluter site for Kerdi and the Kerdi-drain? http://www.schluter.com

[e3]

bet its not CPE but PVC...If it list ASTM- 4551 its PVC...ASTM-4068 is CPE

[Bill Vincent]

Eric-- not to sound stupud or nuttin, but what's the difference between the two?

[stouff93]

I stand corrected, I dropped by the store to confirm and it's the PVC liner. Anyway, looks like I'm going to become a "mud man" and do the shower pan myself. What better thing to do this weekend at the beach house by myself.

Just to make sure I have the right info, this is a closet that is becoming a shower. There is existing drywall in the closet down to the floor like a traditional wall. All flooring has been removed down to the bare subfloor which was yucky quarry tile stuff.

Before putting the shower pan in (preslope, pvc liner...) what should I do with the drywall walls? Do I need to remove some of the bottom drywall to install blocking for the pan liner. Since I can't use the Kerdi membrane, I planned on using 1/4" cbu, the thinnest I could get. We are using 12" travertine on the walls and 2x2 on the shower floor. The shower will have three sides and the front of the shower will have a curb the entire length and we plan on using sliding shower doors. The shower will be 32x54, with one 54" side open.

[2MinutesHate]

I know this is an old subject and everybody here already said you can't use kerdi membrane without the kerdi drain. I have an unusual application in a commercial building with many showers. The clamping drain assembly is rather heavy duty, not your typical drain assembly that you'd see in a house.

The showers are on the second and third floors which are concrete. I was wondering if I could use the kerdi membrane in the same fashion as a pvc liner where I could cut around the clamping ring bolts after the floor was pre-sloped. I would thinset the kerdi to the pre-slope as well.

The problem with these showers is that the walls are block. There really is no way to attach a pvc liner to the block only 5 inches up. The shower floor, base (5") and curb are to receive mosaics.

I have read that you can create a shower pan liner with Mapelastic HPG using the reinforcing mesh. Changing all the drains to kerdi drains I don't believe would be an option because the plumbers don't want to pay for it.
I think it would work. Perhaps I am overlooking something.

Anyone have any useful suggestions?

[Brian in San Diego]

Carl,

Contact Schluter or your supplier of Schluter products. Schluter has a commercial clamping drain adapter for the very situation to which you are referring.

Brian

[2MinutesHate]

Thanks Brian for your reply. However, I was not wondering if the drain could be adapted but if the kerdi itself could be used as a bondable shower pan liner. Has anyone here ever done this before?

[e3]

our system is designed to work with a surface applied membrane and a standard drain.
Check out the Nobleflex,its made just for this applixcation.
http://www.noblecompany.com/Portals/...20lo%20res.pdf
feel free to contact me at link If I can help.