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Unread 03-20-2012, 02:39 PM   #1
HDmstng
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HD's Kitchen Floor

Hi all,

I'm back and working on my third tiling project, our kitchen floor. The span of the joists will support my tile but I'm having issues with the subfloor. The current subfloor is 3/8" plywood and I'm trying to add another 3/4" BC plywood followed by Ditra and then my tile. The size of the room is 10 x 14 with tiling on about 6 x 10' since I'll tile after the cabinets are in place.

I'm using 1 5/8" Deckmate screws and my impact driver. Placing screws every 6" on the perimeter and every 8" on the interior. The plywood is going in perpendicular to the joists.

The problem I'm running into are the screws are getting over driven into the subfloor and just spinning in place. The 3/8 ply is not in the greatest shape. I'll give my non-impact driver a shot, but should I be going with a different size screw? Also, what about construction adhesive as well as the screws?

Thanks for your advice,
HD
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Unread 03-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #2
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HD, I'm hard pressed to believe anyone would actually install nominal 3/8" plywood over joists as a subfloor.

But even if you've got half-inch, which I've been forced to accept is actually used, You are not going to be successful at what you're trying to do. Not even if you properly pre-drill all the holes in your new plywood layer.

If you're not willing to remove what you have, you can treat it as nothing more than an unwanted spacer and install your new 3/4" plywood, which must be T&G, directly to the studs as though the 3/8ths" layer isn't there at all.

You'd then still have a single layer subfloor, but it would meet Schluter minimums for ceramic tile over Ditra.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #3
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Trust me, it is 3/8" plywood! The house was built in the early 70's and they ran out of money during the construction, all sorts of corners were cut. (My wife bought this house before we married, but not sure anyone would have known anyway). I ripped out the upstairs bathroom, same thing, 3/8" plywood, 3/4" particle board (and I mean particle board, not OSB, but ground up and glued together wood dust!) and they tiled directly onto the particle board.

Guess it is time to head back to the store and get some T&G ply. Should I use nails or screws to go into the joists?

HD
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Unread 03-20-2012, 06:29 PM   #4
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ring shanked nails are good, deck screws are better.
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Unread 03-20-2012, 07:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
3/8" plywood, 3/4" particle board
I got one of these 1970 houses too. Particle board got wet in one of the bathrooms and swelled from 3/4 to 1 1/2 to 2"

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Unread 03-20-2012, 11:33 PM   #6
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Whew, 3/4" T&G is down and even got the ceiling painted! Will get some pics up soon!
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Unread 03-21-2012, 06:16 AM   #7
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quick question...I'm installing a 12x12 tile which is 1/4" thick. With the Ditra and the thinset for both the Ditra and the tile, about how high will the final floor sit? (Thinset + Ditra + Thinset + 1/4") = ???
The cabinet installer needs to have a rough estimate so he can set the height of the cabinets.

Thanks!
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Unread 03-21-2012, 06:51 AM   #8
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Thanks for the quick reply! My tile thickness is 1/4", and I came out with 0.5625" total height from searching around, glad to see we came out at the same spot! (7/16 + 1/4)!
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Unread 03-21-2012, 10:00 AM   #9
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Is he setting wall cabinets? If so their height is not set in stone. he could raise the upper cabinets 3/4" and be safe for counter top to cabinet height.

More important that he also know the counter top thickness.

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Unread 03-21-2012, 05:54 PM   #10
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Here is a shot of the subfloor and the cabinets going up. I did have one snafu with the subfloor though. The room is an odd width, 10 ft 3 inches and there were some joists that were under one of the walls. There is one seam, about that landed in the middle of the span, about 5-6 inches in. This will be under the stove, so it shouldn't see much foot traffic, hopefully it won't hurt the tile or cause undue cracking. I do have access from underneath, so some blocking or even another 2x10 may go.

Thanks again, I'll post more pics as the remodel progresses.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 02:54 PM   #11
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Things are moving along quite well on the remodel. Cabinets are up, countertop installed and will be picking up the tile tomorrow! Our original tile choice just didn't go with the countertop, and my wife were sent back out in search of tile. I still wanted wood which we have everywhere else in the house and would look good, but she wanted tile. Low and behold, porcelain that looks like wood! After some searching, I realized this has been around for quite a few years, but it was new to us.

Will probably go with a 1/8" grout line, although am thinking a 1/16 might be nicer.

The tile is 8" x 24", so any suggestions on trowel size?
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Unread 04-05-2012, 05:36 PM   #12
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Thanks for the tips Bob! The plan was to stagger by 33% or 8 and 16 inches for the 24 inch tiles so we are good to go there. You mentioned pillowing and warping in the long rectangular tiles but I've laid out two boxes and haven't seen any of that. Hopefully you don't mean after they are installed they will start to do that!

On another area of tiling, I'm still leaning towards a 1/16" grout line and would like to use an epoxy based grout, probably Spectraloc (sp?) that can be had at Lowes. I've heard horror stories about epoxy grout, but also heard they've come a long way. Would the Spectraloc from Lowes be appropriate with a 1/16" grout line, and should I go with the unsanded variety since it is a small grout line?

Also, I've had a partially used roll of Ditra sitting in my unconditioned garage for the last couple of years, I assume it is still good? I'm in southern Ohio, so we don't have too crazy of swings, and the garage never freezes or gets that hot.

Thanks again,
HD
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Unread 04-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #13
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Ditra should be fine, albeit with a bit more memory than when younger.

Might wanna unroll it and cut it to rough lengths and let it lay about upside down in a warm place prior to trying to install it, but it should be otherwise OK.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #14
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Howdy H.D.............

Quote:
H.D. writes: I've had a partially used roll of Ditra sitting in my unconditioned garage for the last couple of years, I assume it is still good?
I suspects' that Ditra is just fine to use. :--)
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Unread 04-05-2012, 07:49 PM   #15
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This sounds like a good candidate for TLS.

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