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Unread 05-13-2022, 04:28 PM   #1
carrotguy
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help deciding shower pan system - slab plumbing repipe is almost done

Hey guys - long time no see. This is a great forum and was very useful to me several years back. I'm glad that you all and the TL plumbing guys are doing what you do. I have a 32"x32" stand up shower in a master bathroom, in a house that's getting a water/sewer repipe as we speak.

The standup shower is practically demoed and torn down to drywall/studs on three sides. Several years ago I didn't know the drain was blocked, so I pulled out the shower pan base to prepare for a new shower pan installation. The project was aborted after learning the extent of the plumbing problems. Now that the plumbing work is in progress, I may need to make a decision.

According to the plumber, if they remove the shower drain, they'll have to replace the shower pan because of the adhesive used. We talked a bit and it sounded like they would have to install the membrane or liner. I haven't read up on this subject as much as I would have liked, but it feels like this could proceed in a couple of different ways. Here are a few considerations:

-The plumbers are fixing a drain and supply leak. The house had foundation repair in the past. I don't know the name of the company who did repairs or where exactly repairs were made.

-I don't know the condition of the mortar or slope. The liner that's already in place looks old and I would be surprised if it's reusable. If I had all the materials ready to tile a stand up shower now, I would not want to use the existing liner.

-I'm ignorant about these things. Maybe the slope is still in good condition. However, back when I removed the pan, I also removed the length to cover the curb. It's sounding like the liner will need to be replaced at a minimum.

See the attached picture that I found while searching the web. I guess the question is:

Since I'm not ready to install a new shower pan now, are the only options for a shower drain: hot mop, membrane, kerdi, or some other system? Can I ask the plumber for anything specific, to ensure that the new drain/piping could still work with whatever system I might use in the next year or two?

If they install a new mortar mix/slope/membrane, it sounds like that precludes the need to even think about kerdi. Is it just a matter of installing some type of moisure barrier, backerboard, redgard, then thinset and tile? Are there any other considerations?

Thanks.

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Unread 05-13-2022, 05:34 PM   #2
Davy
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Hi James, welcome back. To start with, the pan liner is all one piece. You made it sound like the part that goes over the curb is separate.

There are many different systems that you can use. Kerdi is a system and the one in your drawing is the traditional pan liner system. Kerdi does make their own drain that is usually used with their system. So, the first thing to do is to decide which system you want to go back with and study up on it. The plumbers are use to installing the traditional system which is the most common. It has the 3 piece clamping drain like your drawing shows.

Just so you know, there needs to be a dry pack slope below and above the pan liner. And, no cement board on the curb. It needs to be covered in lath and mudded out. You might check out the "shower construction info" thread in the "Liberry". I would replace the old pan.
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Unread 05-13-2022, 05:45 PM   #3
carrotguy
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Thanks. I found this link in the liberry which helped me think through a few concepts. The plumber said they could leave a section of pipe coming out of the trap exposed. Without knowing the condition of the slope it seems there's some chance it's best for them to redo the entire slope and liner.

It seems apparent I need to do a bit a reading, so I welcome any other comments or feedback.

Kerdi Drain -- Rough-in
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Unread 05-13-2022, 06:54 PM   #4
Davy
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I assume you mean the preslope that's under the pan liner. Now would be a good time to inspect the framing and subfloor under the shower.
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Unread 05-13-2022, 07:22 PM   #5
jadnashua
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The pan on any approved system is waterproof. The advantage to a surface sheet waterproofing system (and it is a SYSTEM) means that the entire shower is waterPROOF just underneath the tile.

You said there was drywall on the walls? There are only two systems that pass the plumbing code that allow you to use/leave drywall in the shower system: Kerdi and Hydroban SHEET (not the liquid). To use either of those two systems, you'd want to use their drain assembly. You do not have to use their pan, and can make your own with deck mud which is cheap for materials.

Numerous methods can produce a fault-free shower, and, while none are 'hard', they are very detail oriented.

You can't get the final plumbing inspection until the pan is completed as the inspector (should) look at a flood test to verify no leaks, and obviously, that can't be done until the liner is in place. In a conventional shower, that means the preslope would have to be done and the liner installed over the curb. In a sheet membrane system, you'd need the pan finished along with the curb, and at least enough up the walls so it's above the top of the curb.
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Unread 05-14-2022, 07:15 AM   #6
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
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I don't see why you couldn't just have the plumbers leave the drain pipe too high and put a plug on the end. Then when you're ready to deal with the shower you'll have to cut the pipe down and install the right drain that goes with whatever system you end up choosing.

Ideally, you'll want the drain in the center in case you end up going with a preformed shower pan.
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