Shower drain types

[steve61]

Ok, I thought I understood the shower drain issue. Clamping with weep holes, but now I'm kinda confused.

My drain that I removed last night was a cast iron. Amazingly enough the three bolts were easily removed even though they were completely encapolated in rust for 40 years!.

The top part comes off (including the strainer) and what remains is a cast iron base. that extends into the concrete foundation. I'm guessing that it is threaded onto something below the surface.

I haven't attempted to remove just yet because:

1) If I break it off somehow, cutting the concrete to get at it isn't on my list of things I'm looking forward to doing over the next week.

2) Was hoping I could only needed to replace the top half. (actually once I clean up the original top it is in pretty good shape).

My question is exactly what is it that I must use with the PVC liner? Is it any clamping drain type (i.e. do they all have weep holes). I search through all of the available drain types at the home center and none indicated anything about weep holes. (Although one had a note that it was suitable for use with a liner).

So... Am I making this too complicated and should just buy a cast iron clamping type and use the new half on my bottom?

Or do I need to figure out how to get the base off and then somehow get new ABS clamping type onto the threaded iron under the surface?

[Jason_Butler]

Try this link...

The type of drains for true shower pans will all have weep holes to allow the water on the pan to exit the shower.

http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/sh...&prodgrpid=115

[steve61]

So... if the drain type indicates that it is suitible for use with a liner (as is the case on the web page you gave me) I can assume it will work ok. I ask this because at the store, I saw one of the units (as indicated in the oatey web page) which indicated for liner use but I couldn't see any weep holes (not sure exactly what I was looking for).

Since None of the plastic types on this page have bottom threads which means I'll have to cut concrete and somehow adapt the metal pipe to the slip on drain base, eek: or is there something that is cast iron or plastic (possibly from another mfg) that will replace what I have now?

[fishinfarmgirl]

all have weep holes to allow the water on the pan to exit the shower.

Can you clarify your thoughts on that point Jason? I confused now.

It was my understanding that the water never completely exits the pan once you've started using it. Am I right with that? Like a perpetual cycle of water running through the mud in the pan? The weep holes allow the water to flow throught the pan yes???

That's how I thought I understood it. That's why we don't seal the shower floors isn't it? Everything gets sealed BUT the shower floor?

anypoo...Steve...
I had a little wrestle with my drain when trying to figure out how the %#*& thing was supposed to be seated. Perhaps someone on here has a good set of pics. My first try I had it upside down but we soon reached an agreement!

L

[Jason_Butler]

Hi Steve,

Not real sure about the existing cast iron drain..maybe some of the others can advise on the conversion..

Here's a pic of the 3 pc shower drain. Notice the notch in the middle of the part..that's a weep hole. Some other versions look a bit different but they all allow water to flow from the liner into the drain


Jason

[steve61]

Ok, Yes this is what I have seen in the store.

Now, for the issue of cast Iron and conversion. I guess what got me going in this direction about something was available in cast Iron was this from John's web site: (not sure if I'm inserting link correctly but

http://johnbridge.com/mortar_bed_shower_floor.htm

From those photos it appears to be reusing (it's all rusty) something very similar to what I have. It looks like a cast Iron drain in which the liner is being clamped between the top and bottom. (Not sure about weep holes, but heck I can drill them if they don't exist or are plugged). But, for that matter I've seen replacement cast Iron top parts that fit my base.

Sooooo, from those photo's is that a makeshift clamping drain that works good enough?

[Davy]

Hi Steve, in the picher Jason put up shows a hole near the bolt head, that's another weep hole. Sometimes the threads are cut away in the middle piece of the drain to let water pass by.

To connect the PVC to the cast iron I would find a Fernco fitting. It is a rubber boot with large clamps. You will have to bust out the concrete around the drain anyway, I'd go ahead and put in a new trap.

[cx]

I think what he wants to do is not chip any concrete, Davy. If, in fact, he can get new parts for the top if his existing cast iron flange, is there any reason not to use it as is?

If it doesn't have weep holes, he could easily cut some groves in the top clamping ring, eh?

Don't rely on what I'm saying here, Steve, I've never done it, I just think it should work fine if your old flange is in good shape. All it needs to do is be able to clamp the membrane with a little pookey between the membrane and the bottom flange.

[steve61]

Yes, my choice is to avoid breaking up the concrete. For the most part the drain bottom and top seems to be in pretty good shape.

Based on the cast iron drains I have seen on the oakey site, they have weep holes on them, so mine probably did until they rusted over at some point. That I can fix. Alternatively, if I can find a new cast drain with a top part that fits my old drain that would be even better.

From stuff I've been looking at it does appear that people (right or wrong) clamp PVC liners between cast iron drains. And for the most part I'm not sure why that won't work as long as it seals up properly (or is made to seal).

That said, using a plastic (ABS or PVC) drain does seem better in the long run as the weep holes will likely rust over again and when that happens the water in the pan mud will just sit there.

But if I had to trade off spending the weekend with a jackhammer and shovel.... I'll figure out how to put a stainless steel insert in for a weep hole.

At this point, I'm tempted to just try the cast iron approach. The other thing I'm going to investigate is finding a plastic drain top that will bolt to my cast drain bottom. It appears the 3 bolt patten is the same. If so, that might be the ideal solution (although weird).

[Davy]

Steve, re using the old drain will be fine or finding a new top part with the same bolt pattern. Clean up the old one, the weep holes might be rusted over.

[Scooter]

I like to use cast iron, and InstaSet still makes them. they are a great product. They slip right over cast iron waste (which I use 'cause it is quieter); it screws into a wood subfloor, if that is what you have; it has three weep holes on top of the top flange (less likely to clog during installation); and here is the nice kicker--it has a built in stopper, so it is easy to do your floot test.

[steve61]

Unfortunately, my drain is in a concrete foundation. If that wasn't the case, I'd probably just rip out the entire body of the original drain and use a new PVC one. As it is now, I'm trying to get away with replacing just the "top" part of the cast Iron drain.

I can find cast drains at the local Home Depot where the top has a three bolt compatible. So, I can just replace the top part (think haven't tried). I'm pretty well convinced from what everyone is telling me that I can use cast on PVC liners, it's just I probably need to be careful to seal it properly and make sure I've got open weep holes.

***My problem at this point is that the cast drains (both my old and the ones I can find at Home Depot) have a fixed height instead of the screw type riser to the strainer. Which I'm assuming is desireable since it will make it easier to get the tile/marble height correct.

1) I was hoping to find something like John Bridge used in one of his pictures (http://johnbridge.com/mortar_bed_shower_floor.htm) that looks like a cast with a threaded riser to the strainer. But I have not seen anything like this in my search.

2) I was looking for InstaSet on the net. Do you have any links or know of somewhere local that carries (I think you are in Southern California Also?).

Thanks

[Scooter]

Any GOOD plumbing supply place will have InstaSet. They are blue. I prefer them to PVC, but then I use cast iron for everything except vents. Call me old fashioned. I won't touch PVC. Hirsh pipe and supply Todd pipe and supply.

[Scooter]

http://www.instantset.com

[steve61]

Thanks Scooter,

This is perfect! Looking at their web site, the adjustable version that I was looking at is described as a floor drain, where as the shower drain is discribed as fixed (Maybe this was why I was having problems on the internet finding what I wanted)

Also, looks like they have a distributer in nearby fullerton which is handy.