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Old 01-01-2018, 11:30 AM   #1
joeyramonesghost
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Ambitious Homeowner Takes Sizeable Bite: Will He Chew It?

New here. Been reading up last few weeks. Never tiled a square in my life. Bought a 1911 brick 2-story 20'x 32' overall, all original floors, joists, and walls, and now in the midst of renovation. Despite my best efforts at predicting the future, there were unforeseen costs and I am now tackling a few more things than initially planned, including the existing second floor bathroom and an adjacent second bath, en suite to the master.

L/618 according to deflecto (caveat being that not all of the joists are in tip-top shape, but sistering and blocking is already in their future).

Existing bath had mortar bed on top of notched joists but in bad shape and with steel water lines embedded so that's ripped out now.

New bath had 3/4" T&G heart pine overlayment, now cut out and with one edge having 9" flooring unsupported extending past joist.

Current plan is 2x6 sister to one side of each damaged joist, and, at a level 3/4" below top of joist, 2x4 sisters to either side of all joists with 2x4 blocking at 16" OC between (except those which are bearing partition walls, those will get 2x6 treatment). Then, as you may have predicted, 3/4" plywood with grain at perpendicular flush-ish (flush with highest joist to make level and flat) with top of joist.

The two bathrooms will have a partition wall framed sort of in parallel with joists, and supported by 2x6 blocking. I have a plan to support the unsupported flooring as well.

I'm here in part to ask about whether anyone has opinions on the subfloor and framing plan, since my GC will definitely bill me to re-do it if anything is not up to code, but mostly to ask about what comes next: floor and wall tile in both baths, and a tiled shower in one. More details coming.

There is also some kitchen tile... :/
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:36 AM   #2
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Welcome aboard, Joey.

Once the subfloors are up to par, the next thing will be the shower. Tile the bath floors last.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:34 PM   #3
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ok so the next thing for the moment is the kitchen

Douglas Fir 2x10" 16" OC, 10' span, deflection of L / 857.

The floor in place currently is 110 year old 3/4" T&G heart pine covered in mastic and asbestos. I pulled off about 4 layers of vinyl floor (at least 1 of which had to be VA), then finally reached a layer of 3/8" plywood, under which I found the 9" square asbestos tiles with nasty tar/asbestos mastic.

So, my question is how to prepare this as a substrate for small-sized (prob 1") hex porcelain. I have been planning to use:

A. henry patch and fill to even out low spots and missing tiles, etc.
B. 1/2" plywood glued and screwed to VA tile/patch layer
C. greenskin
D. modified thinset (something like FlexBond White 50 lb. Crack Prevention Mortar as seen at HD).
E. porcelain tile, 5-6mm thick probably

Questions:
1. Is this a good plan for a durable tiled floor?
2. Is there a way to do it easier, or with lees additional height?

P.S. I already have the greenskin.
P.P.S. The floor creaks in a few places...not a lot but definitely there. I can shoot some liquid nails and throw some small lumber to either side of joists in this area from the basement, e.g. a 2x4 ripped at 45*, to eliminate the noise.

Before anyone posits this: yes, I could rip out the pine, put in a new subfloor, and start from scratch. I'd rather not. Looking for suggestions that avoid that potentiality.

Thanks!
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Old 03-05-2018, 12:56 AM   #4
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Welcome to the forum, Joey.

So is there still a layer of VAT stuck down? That would be the part that would bother me, trying to go over that with plywood. I'd be afraid of having voids between the new plywood and old flooring that would allow for some vertical movement.

Maybe if you post some pictures of the floor you'll get some good suggestions.

By the way, I usually do the bathroom floors first, but that's just a personal preference.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:18 PM   #5
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Yes, there is still a layer of VAT stuck down. Can't get it off readily either. Planning to fill voids and flatten the surface with henry patch and fill compound.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:31 PM   #6
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Patch won't hold together when you start driving screws or nails through it.

You know what I'm about to suggest.......
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:38 PM   #7
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Im hoping that youre about to suggest some magical product to use as an alternative for patching and filling which will hold up well and provide a solution to preparing the VAT surface for plywood. Yes?

Anyone else willing to weigh in here? I need to get moving on this ASAP and really appreciate any and all advice and help.

Thanks!
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:57 PM   #8
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Since you can't just encapsulate and go, I vote tear out...
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:05 PM   #9
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Regarding my alleged inability to "just encapsulate" and go: Can't I? Why can't I?

Also, photos...
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:10 PM   #10
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Ok, so I just called custom building products technical staff. The guy says my T&G pine floors are to be considered "hardwood", and as such the VAT is the least of my issues. Basically says, you know:

1. Minimum 5/8" but better off with 3/4" exterior grade plywood, glued and screwed over VAT.
2. 1/4" or better CBU thinset and screwed.
3. Tile over that.

That's going to add a lot of height to my floor. Maybe I'm asking too much of the uncoupling membrane, but I would think that would give me the additional support needed to do a little less with the surface build-up.

I'm disappointed, and I need to get this done by the end of next week.

--I'm now really considering removal and new subfloor, but I've the asbestos abatement then...
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Last edited by joeyramonesghost; 03-08-2018 at 12:12 PM. Reason: addendum
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:39 PM   #11
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The asbestos isn't a problem until you break up the tile into tiny pieces that become airborne. Basically, if you can pull up the tile in larger pieces you shouldn't have any problem.

If you were able to pull up a strip around the perimeter about four inches wide from the wall, you could cut the subfloor and remove everything at once, keeping the rest of the tile somewhat intact.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:45 PM   #12
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What if I take half of the company mans advice? I can throwdown three-quarter inch plywood to encapsulate the existing floor but instead of CBU, I just use green skin thin thin set and tile over that?
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:08 PM   #13
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I can't say about Green Skin, I've never used it but others here have so I'll let them comment. I have used many rolls of Ditra without any known problems. I tend to stick with what works for me.
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