Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-29-2017, 10:19 AM   #16
ss3964spd
Registered User
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 1,148
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
Yours sounds like mine Tyler. Master bath and bedroom are over the garage. When I pulled up the bathroom sub floor I found one joist bay completely devoid of any insulation - about 24 feet, and 8 of that was under the adjoining walk in closet. They simply didn't put any in that bay when they built the house in 1980. And the insulation that was installed was done very poorly. Yours looks quite good in comparison.

As for air sealing, you can reduce it some but, being old construction, you can't stop it. It's getting in from the rim joists, the bottom plate to subfloor gaps, everywhere. Our house didn't even have house wrap under the siding.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 12:06 PM   #17
OneStaple
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 345
Ok, next question...

I'd like to add supports for the subfloor around the drain area, which is currently a relatively unsupported area. My question is whether putting any of these supports this close to the drain will get me in trouble with altering the drain later to match the tub. Is there a certain distance I should steer clear?

Just FYI, the old drain/overflow is still in place. A new one has not been installed yet.

Each red line in the picture shows one potential support 2x4. Potential supports:
-Along wall edge (far right of picture) to support plywood edges.
-Two sistered on edge (horizontally through picture, one 2x4 shown). These would fall under the T&G edges of the two subfloor pieces. They would come within 1.5" of the edge of the drain.
-One just to the left and one just to the right of the drain (2x4 on left shown). I see these as more optional.

Any thoughts/concerns? I want to make sure a cast iron tub is well supported.

Thanks,
Tyler
Attached Images
 
__________________
Tyler
OneStaple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 12:15 PM   #18
wwhitney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 982
Where is the vent for the tub drain? That U-turn on the drain line is interesting. If there's no vent on the tub drain, you should add one, and you can get rid of the U-turn while you are at it.

Cheers, Wayne
__________________
Wayne
wwhitney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 01:22 PM   #19
OneStaple
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 345
Hopefully the attached picture will show a clearer layout.

The tub drain connects to the horizontal run from the vanity. There's a vent toward the vanity and there's a vent where the vanity/tub line tie into the main stack (red line in corner shows rough location).

The toilet drain is the green line, also tying into the main stack (red line).

This is a 2x6 wall, so I have no clue why they didn't run a 3" stack near the toilet. Perhaps some of the obscured support beams get in the way in that area.

So, while a little funky with that u-turn, I think it still has all the necessary components. And, while I haven't actually measured them, all the PVC seems to be appropriately sloped.

Is it still worth removing the u-turn? Will my proposed subfloor support pieces cause headaches?

Thanks,
Tyler
Attached Images
 
__________________
Tyler
OneStaple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 01:35 PM   #20
mullet
░░░░░░░
 
mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,141
The plumbing looks fine, you have to have the vent on the backside of the draining tub.
__________________
chuck
my first Kerdi Shower
mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 03:03 PM   #21
wwhitney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 982
So in that stud bay with the red level, the vertical vanity drain has a ninety at the bottom connected to the horizontal run in the adjoining joist bay? And what appears to be a ninety at the end of the vanity/shower drain in the joists (to the right of the tub trap) connects shortly into the stack?

The above configuration means your tub is wet vented. I'm not familiar with all the rules for wet venting, but if those drains in the joist system are 2" lines, there a good chance the configuration complies.

Some people don't like wet venting. If it were my bathroom I'd probably take the opportunity to reroute the tub drain to add a dry vent in the 2x6 wall that reconnects to the vanity vent (at least 6" above the vanity flood rim level). But if plumbing is not your thing and you haven't had any drainage problems with the existing arrangement, it's probably fine as is.

Cheers, Wayne
__________________
Wayne
wwhitney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 03:55 PM   #22
OneStaple
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 345
The PVC lines are 1-1/2" pipes. That, of course, limits the length of allowable horizontal runs.

It's approximately 72" from the tub p-trap to the vertical vent for the vanity. And yes, if this is the primary vent for the tub, then it would be wet-vented.

It's more like 50" from the tub p-trap to where it takes a 90 degree turn downward into the toilet drain, which almost immediately connects to the stack (with a vent right there). It's a little tough to see all those connections. I'm not a plumber, but am I right in saying that the 90 degree downward turn prevents the main stack's vent as counting for the tub?

I have not had any drainage problems in this bathroom in the past, but I do like the idea of a dry vent instead of wet one. I'll look into this a bit more.

Any comments on adding those supports around the tub drain area?

Thanks,
Tyler
__________________
Tyler
OneStaple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 04:42 PM   #23
wwhitney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
The PVC lines are 1-1/2" pipes. That, of course, limits the length of allowable horizontal runs.
Only of the trap arm, the pipe between the trap and where the vent is taken off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
I'm not a plumber, but am I right in saying that the 90 degree downward turn prevents the main stack's vent as counting for the tub?
That's correct, the trap weir (the level at which water overflows the trap and goes downstream) has to be below the top of the vent pipe at the vent takeoff. Otherwise, the trap arm could fill with water and siphon out the trap. This requirement, in conjunction with the minimum slope of 1/4" per foot, establishes the maximum length of the trap arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
I have not had any drainage problems in this bathroom in the past, but I do like the idea of a dry vent instead of wet one. I'll look into this a bit more.
It would be good to get rid of the u-turn, as the plumbing code requires an extra cleanout whenever the aggregate degrees of bend in a horizontal run exceeds 135 degrees. But space there looks pretty tight if you try to go into the existing drain line with a wye right before it nineties down into the stack.

A few options to bear in mind: you can put together the two pieces of a p-trap at any angle you like. And you could put an offset (two 45s) into the overflow pipe of the tub if you want to move the entrance to the p-trap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
Any comments on adding those supports around the tub drain area?
Seems like you need to figure out the plumbing first. If you've picked out your new tub, the data sheet should tell you where you need the waste and overflow to be. I don't think it is standard, not sure.

Cheers, Wayne
__________________
Wayne
wwhitney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 04:58 PM   #24
Carbidetooth
Hmmmmm
 
Carbidetooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,120
The plumbing does look a little convoluted, and the wet vent wouldn't fly around here unless a variance was granted by inspector, but it obviously was working. Conceivably the only thing that would throw a wrench in the theoretical gears is if sink and tub were draining simultaneously.

My guess is that the ductwork was in place and had to be plumbed around, otherwise, I can't see the reason for the odd U-loop.

From what you're describing, it would seem the tub could be separately vented by either dumping into horizontal toilet line or vertical stack and getting vertical vent into stud bay where supplies are.

You're right in assuming that the attachment to the toilet line is preventing that closer vent from qualifying as one for tub. If you could run vertical from that attachment and then tie to existing in attic it would.

As to structure in floor. You really need to see tub and assess where it's bearing points are and what manufacturer recommends for wall ledger, if any. It's possible that the only thing that would gain support with the extra framing you propose would be the plywood.
__________________
Peter
Carbidetooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 05:44 PM   #25
OneStaple
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwhitney
A few options to bear in mind: you can put together the two pieces of a p-trap at any angle you like. And you could put an offset (two 45s) into the overflow pipe of the tub if you want to move the entrance to the p-trap.
Not sure I'm totally following, Wayne. You saying to attach the two 45's just below where the tub overflow and drain pipes come together to create a horizontal shift to the entrance to the p-trap?

Seems like I need to do some work on the drains. I'm sure I can figure out how to remove the u-turn. I'll have to investigate adding a dry vent to the 2x6 wall with the supply lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbidetooth
As to structure in floor. You really need to see tub and assess where it's bearing points are and what manufacturer recommends for wall ledger, if any. It's possible that the only thing that would gain support with the extra framing you propose would be the plywood.
Hmmm, there is some truth to that. I plan on using the Kohler Villager and am conflicted on the best way to set it. Kohler says to put it on the 4 tiny feet underneath and then put hard shims under the feet as necessary (how you gain access to do that is beyond me). The guys over at Terry Love swear by using a ledger board on cast iron tubs (including the Villager specifically), even if the manufacturer says to use the feet.

But yes, if I use a ledger board, then I almost wouldn't need plywood there. If I use the feet, I need to make sure they're supported.

Thanks!
Tyler
__________________
Tyler
OneStaple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 09:21 PM   #26
wwhitney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
Not sure I'm totally following, Wayne. You saying to attach the two 45's just below where the tub overflow and drain pipes come together to create a horizontal shift to the entrance to the p-trap?
I'm saying that the overflow pipe doesn't have to be vertical for the whole run, you can offset it horizontally with two 45s before it joins up with the drain from the tub drain shoe. And the tub drain doesn't have to go straight back to pass under the tub overflow opening, if you've offset the tub overflow pipe you can rotate the drain shoe as required.

I guess the above doesn't apply if you want to use one of the lever stoppers with a solid linkage that goes in the overflow. There may be lever stoppers that use a flexible linkage that would work, not sure about that. And of course a toe tap or other stopper that is self-contained at the drain shoe would work.

Cheers, Wayne
__________________
Wayne
wwhitney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 10:45 PM   #27
OneStaple
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 345
Ah, I am following now. Worth considering, as that could add flexibility to the drain connection layout.

I don't plan to use the internal linkage that goes in the overflow. Seems too easy to get clogged with hair. There's also an external cable type mechanism, but it'd be tough to fix it something failed. I'd like to use a lift and turn type drain. Kohler doesn't appear to have any (or I missed them), so I still need to figure out whose drain/overflow assembly to use. If anyone has favorites feel free to shout them out.

Tyler
__________________
Tyler
OneStaple is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tyler's half bath OneStaple Tile Forum/Advice Board 25 02-10-2017 11:43 AM
Tyler's master bathroom build-along OneStaple Tile Forum/Advice Board 312 01-09-2017 09:25 AM
Tyler's bathroom build-along (with questions as I go) OneStaple Tile Forum/Advice Board 217 10-10-2014 12:58 PM
Sparky's DIY bathroom build Vegas Sparky Tile Forum/Advice Board 104 07-04-2014 10:07 AM
Chris' bathroom re-build Clubs Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 02-12-2013 12:05 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC