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-   -   Carrera Tile Shower Floor with large gray area (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124416)

Greenhornet 01-02-2018 03:40 PM

Carrera Tile Shower Floor with large gray area
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello:
We Installed Carrera (2" hexagons) as shower flooring.
After a few weeks of showering the tile presented Grey spot. Initially, by the drainage and than it expanded towards the shower heads and over to the bathroom floor.
I am wondering what would be the root cause for this and what/how i can remedy the problem.
The drainage we used is: Quartz by ACO 93816 55.12 plain edge drain channel stainless steel body, and A Quartz by ACO 377419 Tile ready Grate.
The areas was hot moped and mud sloped prior to installation of the Carrera hexagons.
Thank you for your comments and advise.

Houston Remodeler 01-02-2018 04:01 PM

Yuval,

Welcome to the forum.

With a hot mop as the waterproofing, it would be my guess the drain height is higher in elevation than the hot mop layer. The drain shown has no weep holes. This combined with the hot mop elevation means the mud bed / drypack (above the hot mop and below the tile) is holding water. This should not be a problem as long as the shower and main bath floor are properly waterproofed. It would have been wiser to use a surface applied membrane as the waterproofing. A surface applied membrane would have eliminated the thick drypack layer and the need for weep holes.

Surface applied membranes are Kerdi, Hydroban, Aqua Defence, Nobleseal, Red Guard and a few more.

Houston Remodeler 01-02-2018 04:35 PM

Can you lay a level on the shower floor and take a measurement for us?

Used stacked quarters or some known object under the low end of the level so we can figure out the slope. It should be sloped towards the drain at 1/4 inch per foot / 2%

Shady at Best 01-02-2018 05:02 PM

I have noticed showers with clogged weep holes are more prone to this. Another sign of clogged weep holes is rapid and persistent mold/mildew growth in the grout joints.



Travis, that is a very good idea!

Tool Guy - Kg 01-02-2018 09:14 PM

Welcome to the forum, Yuval. :wave:

Bummer. Another thread with someone who has a stone shower floor with moisture in it causing discoloring.

Can I ask you: Was a sealer of any sort applied?

:)

Greenhornet 01-03-2018 03:22 PM

Carrera Tile Shower Floor with large gray area
 
Hello Mr. Goldstein - Thank you for the post. They sealed the carrera with Intencifia Sealer recommended by the Stone Fabricator.

Also, i recall the subfloor was sloped prior to the Hot Mop.

I will post the numbers for the slope today after i measure it.

Thank you all!!

Greenhornet 01-03-2018 06:56 PM

Carrera Tile Shower Floor with large gray area
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi Guys: I measured and took pictures :-) From the shower wall to the middle section of the floor, about 2 feet, there were 8 Quarter = 9/16. At the end of the floor About 40" from the wall there were 13 quarters = 15/16. See pictures attached.

Houston Remodeler 01-03-2018 07:27 PM

That is good news, at least we know the top is properly sloped.

We still don't know about what is underneath. Have you spoken with the contractor?

jadnashua 01-03-2018 10:36 PM

Neither tile nor grout, even when 'sealed' (which is mostly for help in staining, not water absorption), is waterproof. So, with a linear drain, none that I've seen have weep holes. The mudbed will get some moisture after each shower. Some of it will evaporate, but often, not all, depending on use and time in between. So, without weep holes, the mudbed will start to become saturated, and wick into the tile, causing them to darken. Probably 99.9% of the water goes down the drain, but the other bit will start to accumulate if it cannot weep out and down the drain. That can't happen without weep holes, and as I said, I've not seen a linear drain that has them (might exist, but...).

There are lots of complaints about this sort of thing when using natural stone tile in a shower, and it will happen faster if the shower is not built to industry standards. A typical linear drain is designed for use with a surface waterproofing membrane, not a conventional (hot mop is similar) built shower.

If the hot mop was done well, you won't get damage, but you will have the cosmetic issue. Worst case, it will start to smell.

Houston Remodeler 01-04-2018 12:07 AM

My thoughts are the same.

The problem then becomes what is happening as the water in the mud bed starts seeping outside the shower into the main bath floor. How well was that area waterproofed?

Davy 01-04-2018 08:13 AM

The last linear drain I installed set into a regular clamping drain. Instead of the top grate screwing in like usual, there was a threaded pipe about 2 inches long and then the linear drain set inside of the short pipe. I had a regular pan liner with a preslope under it. It had 3 inch threads instead of 2 inch.

But, if this shower has clogged weep holes or no weep holes, we all know this problem won't get any better. I'd like to see a pic of the drain section that's under the linear drain.

Greenhornet 01-05-2018 05:13 PM

Carrera Tile Shower Floor with large gray area
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi Guys - Had a forensic Examiner here yesterday. It seams like the liner drain doesn't have weep holes. He say there are two options to deal with such an issue: 1) Create weep holes at the mud level, pebble around, and the moisture will seep through. 2) the better installation is a membrane at the level of the drain such that water that penetrates the tile will drain through the membrane. I also found a good picture through the manufacturer.

Davy 01-05-2018 05:44 PM

That looks like a regular clamping drain to me that has a rubber boot for the linear drain to set in. There won't be weep holes in the linear drain, they would be in the middle section of the clamping drain next to the bolt heads. Your pic doesn't point them out but I've never seen a clamping drain that didn't have weep holes. Maybe someone else has. I have seen other types of drains that didn't have them.

Some linear drains are made for surface membranes and some are not. If your shower is built like your diagram then it has a pan liner under it and would need weep holes. Do you have any pictures of the shower being built so we can see the drain underneath the linear drain?

Like the others said, there might be weep holes in your lower drain but if there is no preslope under the liner then the water can't reach the weep holes. Or, if the installer didn't protect the weepholes with pebbles then the weep holes may be clogged with cement.

Houston Remodeler 01-05-2018 06:03 PM

The question then becomes: How will the contractor make repairs?

Davy 01-05-2018 07:09 PM

Might see some finger pointing. The tile man didn't do the hot mop so if the pan doesn't have slope, he may say it's not his problem.

Just thinking out loud, I have seen hot moppers add slope to the pan by adding more layers of felt paper and tar as you get away from the drain. That way, even on a flat floor they can have slope. I assume doing this is normal. But, this shower looks pretty large, how many layers would it take to get pitch from the far end if the floor was flat to begin with? All mud bed /liner shower floors need a preslope, not sure if this shower has one.

Yuval, was the bottom section of the drain (below the linear drain where the bolts are) included with the linear drain and if so, was it used?


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