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Willy 11-26-2015 09:34 AM

Scott's Master Bath Remodel
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Hey there, hope everyone is having a great holiday....

I'm at the beginning of redoing my master bath. And I have a few questions regarding sistering joists. I have 2x10's (Doug Fir I believe) unsupported 13.5'. With that, the Deflecto calculator says I am good for ceramic tile. I am not sure what I am going to be using at this point so I want to make it the best I can. On top of the structure I will have 3/4" and 1/2" plywood followed by Ditra. I'll attach a pic so you can see what I am working with.

1. When sistering my 2x10's is it best to use 2x10 material or can I go down to say 2x6 or 2x8? I plan on sistering the full 13.5'

2. When I leave the 1/8" gap along the edge and between sheets of the subfloor can I silicone that to seal the room off from the crawlspace? It may be a while before tile gets put down.

Thanks, and again I hope everyone is having a great Holiday!

cx 11-26-2015 02:27 PM

Depends upon your goal, Scott, and what you've got there. I can't tell what joist spacing you've got, but it appears some of your joists are already doubled. From what little we can see in the photo, your joists appear to be of very good grade and if you're correct about the species, you've likely got a very good start there.

1. If your goal is L/720 for a natural stone installation, you'd need to sister the single joists with full 2x10 joists.

2. You really want a good quarter-inch gap around the perimeter of your subflooring. Filling the gaps with some sort of flexible sealant is fine, but I'd not use silicone. A cheap painter's caulk would be more than adequate. And if you're installing a second layer of plywood subflooring, you shouldn't need to fill any of the gaps between panels.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Willy 11-26-2015 03:04 PM

I appreciate the reply CX.
Full 2x10's it is, with painter's caulk sealing the first layer perimeter.
The near side of the pic will be the laundry room. The bathroom will start this side of the joists that have a slight gap between them. I'll add some more pics and get joist spacing and species later this evening..

Hope you had a good holiday, thanks again!

Willy 11-26-2015 07:55 PM

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I could only find one stamp on the joists. And the joists are at most 16 o.c.
I've added some other pics to show what I have going on.
The pink tile is horrible, and it was everywhere.

could someone spin the pics around for me? The viewed correctly on my computer...:scratch:

Willy 11-26-2015 08:00 PM

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Here's another pic of the stamp..Hemlock...

cx 11-26-2015 08:29 PM

Not sure I've ever seen a Construction grade on anything as large as 2x10 material. But I ain't yet seen it all.

Not at all sure what you've got there, but it certainly looks like good material. Sistering up those two single joists should give you a very sound floor, think I.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Willy 11-27-2015 07:21 AM

It's a bit of a mess right now but, what the one picture shows is the laundry room. That wall is coming this way about 40" to make room for a new shower. At that point the dryer will be on the left with the washer on the right. In the other pic, behind the toilet is the same wall. That gives me a shower that will be roughly 39" x 7'. The toilet will go to the right of the door where the tub is with a 60" vanity on the left. It will be tight but it will be much better than what I have now.

Thanks again

Houston Remodeler 11-27-2015 08:18 AM

A shower that long will give you either plenty of room to drip dry and towel off, set the wheelchair out of the way, or have room for other people.

If you don't need any of those features, will shortening the shower to 6 or 5.5 feet get you more usable space outside the shower ?

Willy 11-27-2015 10:57 AM

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Here is the basic idea I had for the layout...My measurements aren't exact as I'm not at home but they are very close. I am open for suggestions, but with such a tight space there just isn't much room. Sorry for the 3rd grader sketch

Thanks for looking

Houston Remodeler 11-27-2015 11:49 AM

Plenty of room to go curbless and door less if you nix the bench.

FWIW most benches are only 12 inches deep as people don't sit all the way back, but instead on the edge (unlike a chair) unless its a steam shower and you're spending some time in there.

Kman 11-27-2015 02:12 PM

I make my benches a minimum of 14" deep, unless the customer wants something different.

The Better Benches are obviously less than that, except for the biggest of them.

Willy 11-27-2015 03:07 PM

As I was drawing that out I was thinking doorless for the shower. I am also thinking about a linear drain. How does one go about keeping all the floors the same height and get the slope in the shower with no curb? I know it can be done, I just can't wrap my head around it...

Houston Remodeler 11-27-2015 03:19 PM

As drawn the area to the right (at the bench) is flat with the main bath floor.

As the floor slopes down to the drain (far left) a vertical wedge opens on the (as drawn) bottom of the shower but the pony wall hides the change in elevation from one side to the other. The pony wall would have to be longer.

Make sense ? :crazy: or did that make things worse ? :dunce:

Willy 11-27-2015 03:26 PM

Makes sense, thanks!

Willy 11-27-2015 05:03 PM

I thought it made sense but the more I thought about it the more I confused myself.

I guess I am confused as to how I would get the slope to the drain from the flat portion of the floor?

Would I stop the main floor at the shower and then set the shower subfloor inside the joist bays so that the top of my two sheets of plywood is flush with the top of the floor joists?

How much longer do you think the pony wall would need to be to do this?

And now that I am home, the shower will be 88.5" wide x 39.5"

Houston Remodeler 11-27-2015 05:15 PM

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One idea

Willy 11-27-2015 05:21 PM

Yes I was thinking a glass panel in that section.
I can make the pony wall 36", with 20" of glass to the opening of the shower. The shower opening would be 28", is that too big too small?

Houston Remodeler 11-27-2015 05:47 PM

24 is a wide shower door, but you can make the opening wider if you wish.

ummm, how wide are the other household members ? :scratch:

Willy 11-27-2015 05:56 PM

Ha. It's just me. And I'm not very wide at all.

Houston Remodeler 11-27-2015 05:57 PM

Then its just the ease of access for the cleaning staff.

Willy 11-27-2015 07:18 PM

What about putting the drain along the back wall and sloping the entire shower floor to it? I assume I would still have to lower the floor like I was describing in post #15? I'd like to keep that pony wall as small as possible, basically just enough to hide the end of vanity. Or, I could take the pony wall out and have a large wall of glass.

I'm glad I am still in the planning stages...

Houston Remodeler 11-28-2015 11:01 AM

You could, but you'd still need a door or curtain

Willy 11-29-2015 07:42 AM

For some reason Paul's last response didn't post.

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around how to do this.

Another idea I had was to take out the pony wall and put a curb in the full length. So essentially it would be a glass wall on top of the curb with a 24" opening in to the shower.

Any other ideas?

Willy 11-29-2015 05:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I took a picture of the original house drawings to show what I am doing.

The washer and dryer will be opposing one another on the far left. The door leading outside will be removed.
The wall between the bathroom and laundry room is moving over giving me my shower.
The vanity was originally in the closet in the master bedroom. I have removed it and moved the wall between the bathroom and the closet in to the closet about 2 feet. That gives me the room for my vanity in the bathroom.
The tub below the window will come out and that is where the toilet is going.
The door into the bathroom and the one in the laundry room will be converted to pocket doors.

Willy 12-18-2015 09:43 AM

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I have decided not to sister all the floor joists. I have plenty of room underneath for a beam to cut my unsupported span in half. My span will go from 13.5 feet down to about 6 feet. Doing this will be easier and according to the deflecto it will yield much better results.

1. What size 2x material should I make my beam out of? The span of the beam will be 12 feet.

2. I'll be supporting the beam with 4x4 NON pressure treated posts, is something like THIS ok to use to support the posts?

3. When I trim down some of the floor joists to allow for a sloped shower floor like in the picture. Should I still go ahead and sister those joists full length in addition to the beam?

Willy 12-20-2015 12:39 PM

Any thoughts on the above questions?

Houston Remodeler 12-20-2015 12:44 PM

1- There's a chart for the beam size somewhere. You'll need to know the beam span and species. The chart will include all that.

2- depends on what those blocks rest - will the blocks have good support?

3- Can't hurt, but if they meet the deflecto there is no reason to.

cx 12-20-2015 12:50 PM

1. I think we need to know why you're adding the mid-span support. If you're using ceramic tile, I believe we've already established that your joist system meets the requirements.

Here's a useful calculator for determining what your beam might need to be.

2. Depends upon what they're sitting on.

3. Depends how much you intend to remove and where you might install your new support beam if you install one. Ripping the existing joists at an angle means you no longer have any real idea what size or grade the "new" joists will qualify as. Sistering might be a good idea, but, again, the amount of ripping and location of supports would determine just how much might be adequate.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Willy 12-20-2015 12:53 PM

1. The span of the beam will be 12 feet the species will be SYP. I'll see if I can find the chart.

2. The blocks will rest on flat level dirt in the crawl space.

Thanks Paul!

Houston Remodeler 12-20-2015 12:55 PM

2- round these parts that base will need to set on at least a 2 foot x 2 foot concrete pad buried at least one foot into the ground. With 1/2" rebar in a particular configuration. Your mileage may vary.

Willy 12-20-2015 01:08 PM

Again, thanks for the reply.

I was hoping that the plan for the beam would be easier/better but it looks like the original plan of sistering all the 2x10 floor joists may be the overall best option.

cx 12-20-2015 02:04 PM

With ripping down the existing joists, the beam might be your only viable option.

Willy 12-20-2015 02:14 PM

Thanks CX

Willy 02-08-2016 11:06 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Been a little bit since my last update so here is progress as of yesterday,

Joist sistered and beam added below the joists I will be cutting to allow for a curbless shower. I even broke out the trusty block plane to level a few of the high spots on the joists.

The last picture shows what lies ahead of me...That 12" mark is where the toilet goes:bonk: looks like I have more structural work to do.

Could someone rotate the 1st, 3rd and 5th pic 90° cw please? Not sure why they uploaded from the computer like that.

Willy 02-08-2016 11:08 AM

The footers the support beam are resting on are 12 inches wide and 2 feet deep.

Houston Remodeler 02-08-2016 06:35 PM

Is that vertical support pressure treated ?

Willy 02-08-2016 06:43 PM

Paul, it is not treated. Nothing in my crawl is treated so that is why I went with that. I am assuming you are thinking moisture will wick up through the concrete. I will say this my crawl never gets damp even in the heaviest of rains. It shouldn't be too much trouble to change out if you think that's a better way to go. Here is what the post attaches to the concrete with.

Houston Remodeler 02-08-2016 06:50 PM

Just curious. I've seen a number of houses built without PT lumber that are a hunnert years old and still standing.

Kman 02-08-2016 07:53 PM

With that bracket to hold it above the concrete, I wouldn't worry.

Willy 02-12-2016 10:44 AM

Im getting ready to notch my joists to allow for my curbless entry shower, and build the floor for that. I'm trying to figure out how much I need to cut down my joists. I will be using a kerdi-line drain. The distance of the slope will be 64"

What thickness of flooring do I need to use under the deck mud?

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