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irish tileguy in michigan 04-17-2007 07:29 PM

gas prices
 
heard on radio this morning that gas on west coast was approx. $3.20 a gallon, thats crazy. today i paid $2.78 and thats way too high. any of u guys on the west coast care to discuss.

Dave Hessel 04-17-2007 09:38 PM

I filled my Toyota up at Fred Meyers today.{2.90 per gal.} What do you do? I guess you could get some horses or oxen. Imagine the looks people would give you, driving a wagon loaded with thinset, Ditra, a mixing tub and all your tools down the road. A guy'd have to get going a little earlier in the morning. No, but seriously biodiesel, ethanol? I'd like to look into making my own biodiesel.

dgunnels 04-18-2007 05:08 AM

2.78 per for regular down here. We actucally have a supply depot here in town but it's still high. I feel so badly for Bobby when he has to fill up the Duramax, ouch.

John Corley 04-19-2007 02:16 PM

Filled up this morning at $3.49. Personally I'm thinking it's time for a change. I do not understand how we can consistantly get screwed just about everyway possible on a daily basis. (Talking about California)

Bugman 04-19-2007 02:35 PM

I saw gas at $3.039 in Durham, NC, on Tuesday. Prices weren't that high outside of the Raleigy/Durham area. Here in Clemson I can still find gas for $2.639.

irish tileguy in michigan 04-19-2007 06:35 PM

does any know why so high on west coast?

JTG 04-19-2007 06:45 PM

Why is gas so high on the West Coast.
Consider: Most of the oil from Alaska is processed on the West Coast.

We don't vote for GW!

That's what I think.

JTG

SlowButSure 04-19-2007 07:39 PM

Why so high on the west coast? Easy question, complicated answer. Emissions requirements - and our dear commodities brokers. Each of our lovely states in the union likes to diddle with the emissions laws and generally speaking, the more states with the same laws the better the price in those states cuz the refineries get to make more of it, so larger supplies and theoretically less overhead. California, on the other hand, likes to head the green pack and has tighter requirements, fewere refineries making it, less quantity, higher risk of impact if a refinery has an oops.

And since gasoline is a commodity, our dear brothers in the commodities like to speculate and make money, so anytime someone burps they get to run around like chickens and say there's a gas leak... oh, maybe a shortage is coming, oh boy, I'm gonna bet the price will go up... enough of that and it does.

This is precisely the reason the prices are higher right now than before. Every year, in the spring, the refineries change over from winter grade gas to summer grade (tigher emissions requirements) and in the process, guess what? The refineries have to clear out old stuff in process and start the new, so there is a slight decrease in production as the make the changeover. Did I say a decrease? Golly gee - must be they can't keep up with demand, and everyone knows demand is higher in the summer (some genius in the media likes to say that) so it must be we are facing a shortage again, there goes the price. But hey, the commodities brokers aren't paying attention to the facts, and that every year for at least the past 10, prices ALWAYS surge during the changeover, then decrease afterwards (well. at least a little). But hey, they like their little game, and they make money by speculating.

Add to that fears about Iran, Iraq, Venezuela and the brokers are having a field day. Not that there is even a hitch in actual production or production costs ANYWHERE.

Ok, I'm officially crabby again, time for a beer.

Bugman 04-19-2007 08:30 PM

TAXES! Federal tax = $0.18/gallon

State Taxes: http://gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

ddmoit 04-20-2007 10:13 AM

The data are a few years old, but this provides some insight into gas prices:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/bro...05primerM.html


JB, if you happen to see this, there is some information in the above link that relates to the discussion we were having about the gasoline futures market. Specifically, seasonal demand increases around 5% during the vacation/summer driving season.

lou432 04-20-2007 01:45 PM

Just got back from Coverings ( Chicago) & gas was $3.25 & higher per gallon ! I thought WOW!!!!!!!!!! I`m in southern NH & its $2.79 or so.

Thats .50 or so higher???? Go figure :shrug: I don`t think we got no refineries round here?

Seems like 6-8 weeks ago I was paying $2.05 per gallon.

John Bridge 04-21-2007 01:41 PM

The conversation Dan was alluding to took place at Coverings in the couch area. :)

I got CX mad at me before he left to go owl counting by saying I wanted to abolish the futures market for gasoline. CX accused me of wanting to dictate prices to the oil companies. Dan pretty much agrees with CX, but they are both wrong. ;)

1. (background) There is no world market for unleaded gasoline; only in the states. So the price of crude, which is marketed at the world level, has little to do with the price of gasoline.

2. (background) The "summer driving season" is a gimmick. As was stated in the article, demand goes up 5% during the summer months. It happens every year and is easily predicted. There are no shortages on the supply end during the summer, so while the price might be expected to rise somewhat, there is no significant reason why it should rise a dollar or more per gallon. Last fall the gasoline folks got together and announced that the shortage didn't in fact occur. Prices for unleaded gas plummeted to around $2 per gallon.

3. By playing and monitoring the futures market, gasoline producers, distributors and retail dealers just about know what their competitors will be charging. Notice how gas prices change all over a region pretty much simultaneously. This would not occur in a truly competitive market. The process would take longer. There are only two ways to account for it. Dealers either get on the phone and conspire with one another (which I don't believe they do), or they keep an eye on the futures market. With that knowledge and an idea of pricing history, they know what their competitor across town will be charging in the morning within a penny or two. I contend that this amounts to price fixing.

4. The price of gasoline and diesel fuel affects the economics of the entire nation, every business depends to some degree on cars and trucks -- every business. By keeping fuel prices volatile, the gasoline guys are playing havoc with our productivity and economy.

Every other energy product is regulated both at state and federal levels, and for good reason. Electricity producers can't raise prices on a whim; they have to get permission (at the retail level). Same for natural gas. If that were not the case it would be mayhem.

I don't propose the same system for gasoline, but by taking it off the futures market and making that type of speculation illegal, the folks at the corner station would have to play by the same rules as everyone else who retails a product. Gasoline prices will vary, but gouging will stop. Gouging is what the current system amounts to. Instead of operating within the free market system, gasoline producers and sellers violate that system with impunity.

Bri 04-21-2007 01:46 PM

John Bridge for President. :)

jvcstone 04-21-2007 03:59 PM

Prices have increased for 11 straight weeks now, and the summer peak is still 2 months or more away.

JB, I don't think that the retailers really have much say on the price--it's being controlled by the distributers, and the retailers only have a couple of cents margin to play with. They get charged more for each delivery, and the price at the pump reflects that.

higher fuel prices make damn near every thing we buy more expensive, but the money gurus say that inflation is low and in control. Someone xplain that one to me.

Around here, small trucks --rangers, masdas, s-10s etc are being snapped up like hotcakes at premium prices, while the monster rigs and other expensive toys are staying parked in the drive. My f-450 diesel only goes out when absolutly necessary.

JVC

Oh, I second the nomination---when do we vote???

Davestone 04-21-2007 06:00 PM

You only need to watch the news when something is announced and watch the knee jerk reactions,like say Nabisco announces it's expected fourth quarter earnings..if it's good,the stock goes up,bad,goes down, and when the true numbers come in the same thing happens...soooo let's say the co. know this and release certain announcements to help themselves..i.e. fuel shortages,refinery backups.....


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