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-   -   Steam shower, Schluter or not? (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124954)

Elkski 03-17-2018 10:22 AM

Steam shower, Schluter or not?
8 Attachment(s)
I haven't done any recent tiling and haven't been reading this forum for hours a day like I used to.
I am remodeling a basement to become a 2 bedroom MIL apartment. I have a steam generator and plan to make a steam shower. This bathroom has a 600 CFM inline fan already installed. I am now thinking it may have been stupid to tear out all the old school shower work as it looked pretty good. The mudbed was good. The liner was under the pan and went up over a hump in middle of the solid hand made curb. I had noticed some slight moisture in the back of the shower when I was in the under stairs storage area. I had replaced the wall to base caulking before and it was looking moldy again. There were no loose tiles. The walls were made with lath and a 3/8"-1/2" coat of mud but had no liner on the drywall but I didn't see any issues but I didn't tear it out or inspect it real well during the demo.
I plan steam ( yes I know there are cu ft sizing issues.. The unit I have can handle this shower) Multiple heads and side jets. I plan on a top tilting window to keep the steam in or let the steam out.
I have used ditra before but not kerdi. I was thinking about a custom made foam pan.
Of course I am on a budget but want an upscale look. I figure to save money by doing the tiling myself. I have a precision eye and I am a perfectionist. I do worry about being disappointed in my job.
I do have demo remorse after seeing that well made shower pan.
I did the demo because I wanted a bench the new steam shower and I felt the curb needed moved out so it was comfortable standing up in the shower. How does a bench affect the code size of the shower. Should I make this shower ADA compliant? I had planned a curb and glass doors not a walk out shower.

I need to get the shower e book.
But I would appreciate any links to similar projects or products I must use.
I saw the bold on the wall benches but cant see how they wouldn't deflect and cause in issue. The steam generator will be behind the wall on the left side... I am aware the jet need to enter away for the bench so I see the bench in the back wall and jet inlet in the lower left front. the door would be on the right since the toilet is close on the left.

The old shower RO is 58" and it was maybe 36" inside the curb.. if felt big enough for 2. the side wall is 48" I do plan to make it deeper like 42 inside a curb and the 58" can be increased some as there is plenty of clearance for the door. I wish to keep the wall heater and not sure how close it can be to a shower glass door. I could move it to one other wall spot IF I go with a stacked Washer Dryer unit.

What type of drain flange is this... can I use it for a Kerdi system?
I actually dont see any signs of water on the base studs anywhere?

Elkski 03-17-2018 11:05 AM

How do I send an autocad picture?

koihito 03-17-2018 11:44 AM

Teddy, let the remorse go, the demo is done and you can't undo it!


I have used ditra before but not kerdi.
Schluter products are a great option for a steam shower, depending what is available in your area there are lots of other options as well. Keep in mind you'll need (and want) to slope your ceiling 2" per foot lest you get cold water droplets raining down on you.

How does a bench affect the code size of the shower.
I can't speak for Utah, but in NC it has no effect at all. Your shower will be plenty big in any case.

Should I make this shower ADA compliant? I had planned a curb and glass doors not a walk out shower.
I'm sure your aware, but just to be sure, those are not compatible :) Before thinking ADA for the shower I'd be looking at the access to the bathroom itself. It's in a basement, a walkout with wheel chair access and a clear shot to the bathroom? Is the bathroom door 36"? Another approach might be to do some research on "Universal Design" which makes universal access it's goal but acknowledges the reality of limitations remodeling existing structures, something ADA does not do.

I saw the bold on the wall benches but cant see how they wouldn't deflect and cause in issue.
Not following, but if you are referring to foam benches don't worry, they are plenty strong if directions are followed.

I wish to keep the wall heater and not sure how close it can be to a shower glass door.
Personally, I wouldn't be worried about the location of the heater. I seriously doubt it can generate enough heat to cause problems with the glass.

What type of drain flange is this... can I use it for a Kerdi system
Schluter makes a remodel drain that will work with your existing drain, but you would not be able to use a foam pan. Any of the foam pans will require you to take out at least some concrete.

Elkski 03-17-2018 12:08 PM

I have a bulldog hammer gun so I could have that drain line exposed in an hour.
I can order any supplies I cant find locally. I will stop by a store today to see what they stock. They were a nearby supplier from the Schluter website. Yes it is a walk out basement but has some stairs unless you have a off road chair.and the doors are all under 36"
I have no reason to suspect I need a wheelchair to get into the shower.
IT was just sad to see so much hard labor of the old shower torn out.
Do you notice how the studs on the ceiling are 24" and one wall too.
Glad to know my shower is a good size.
As far as the bench goes
I was referring to the metal bolt on ones that you fill with mortar. I like the clean look but had originally thought I would build a box one our of Wedi foam.

I really haven't kept up with the latest trends in the last 10 years.
I do want some cubby holes in the walls.
The sloped ceiling is noted.

jadnashua 03-17-2018 01:33 PM

The Better Bench works. I've only use a corner one so it had support on two sides. If you could support yours on two sides, I'd feel better, but they do sell some monster bolts that you can use to add additional support for the thing. Once it is bolted to the wall and the sand mix you fill it with has cured, it is quite robust.

Keep in mind that a shower should be water tight prior to the tile being installed, so if you saw some moisture outside of it, while the caulk might have slowed it down, the shower had problems.

Schluter has two thicknesses of Kerdi...Kerdi and Kerdi-DS. The -DS version is rated for a commercial steam shower, the Kerdi is not, but is certified for a typical home steam shower. The difference is in the perm rating. A commercial steam shower may run all day and maybe even through the night, giving it little to no time to dry out in between uses...a residential shower usually has most of every day to dry. FWIW, KerdiBoard can be used in a steam shower, and might speed up the whole installation process. Adding a little insulation to the walls doesn't hurt, either. You can use KerdiBoard to make your bench, but if you wanted it floating, you'd have to take some extra steps. WOrks fine when you can use KerdiBoard to give it firm vertical support, but other than use in say a corner, and how long it is, you'd probably want to support it from below.

You have to keep the steam pipe and generator away from KerdiBoard, but as long as you're aware of that and route your pipes and hardware carefully, it does work. Since steam can get hotter than boiling, the supply pipe can, too. KerdiBoard has a max temp limit of (I think) about 180-degrees F, thus, the precaution about positioning things. Remember that steam is invisible, and at least as sea level, will be at least 212-degrees. The mist you can see is no longer steam, but there's likely some in the mix. Still, it could easily be hotter than the upper limit of the KerdiBoard foam core.

MisterJJ 03-17-2018 02:40 PM


How do I send an autocad picture?
Not sure what you're trying to do there. Do you have an Autocad DWG that you want as a picture? I find it easiest to just get what I want on the screen and press CTRL - Print Screen. Then open up Paint and hit CRTL - V. Save picture.

Tool Guy - Kg 03-17-2018 07:00 PM

...or print the autocad drawing to PDF, if that's an option.


Tool Guy - Kg 03-18-2018 05:02 PM

...and whoops, I forgot to welcome you back. Welcome back, Teddy. I remember you from years ago. :wave:

Elkski 03-23-2018 06:08 AM

Sorry guys... I have been busy... Trying to water proof the outside of my house. Again!!:scratch:

I have tried to shft prt scrn but that just toggles my object snap mode on or off? I cant seem to save a print file to a format that this site lets me send?

Oh well, I was just wanting to show my intended layout of the bathroom. I took a pic of the screen.. I feel like technology left me in the dust.

I did find that the end wall has a vent pipe in it. going into a cement pad so my 58" length for the shower is a bit firm. I can consider moving the toilet and this vent pipe if needed. There is a 4" drain line in the wall behind the washer location.
If I install a wall to wall better bench would it need a center support?
Do the mounting screws jeopardize the waterproofing integrity? OR I guess you install first then kerdi onto the bench.

Elkski 03-23-2018 06:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
My pic. Room dimensions are 10' 5" X 11'

Elkski 03-24-2018 12:33 PM

Well I ordered a new used better bench adjustable unit off ebay for 127$ TMD. The plan is to go all the way across the back. Need to order a support.
The shower is going to get more attention now. At least in the ordering and sourcing of supplies. I was surprised the drain is very near the middle. IT is 23" x 30" from back left corner . Just a rough measurement so far. and the opening is 58 1/2 by I think it needs to be 46-48 to the glass with that 14.5" deep bench to give an open space feeling . it may have been 42-44 before. Its 88" tall so that is 136 cu ft. or according to some sizing website based on glass door and ceramic tile that is corrected to 199 cu ft sizing on steamist shows a SM-7 so the SM-11 is overkill. Anyone want to buy a Steam generator? .

How accurate do I need to measure that drain to order a custom pan. or is there a 60 x 48 with drain in the middle I can make work?
Or do I just get a 48" x 72" that I see for 750$ on amazon . 750$ ouch. eek!! and cut off some on both ends?

The steam generator is a Steamist SM11. can handle up to a 500 cu ft room. I think I have one spare SM-11's.. they require a control board as I recall to make a master. I need to buy a new power board as these were 3 phase .

Elkski 03-24-2018 02:44 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I just dug all my shower parts from my shed. I salvaged a day spa some years ago.
A nice Grohe temperature control main valve. grohe 0509-51 2 Grohe control valves with extention sleeves, Two Moen large diameter heads, 4 small side jet heads, all in brushed nickle.
THe SM11. Steammist generator and a wet control box. I thought I had a dry control panel too. but maybe I sold it when I sold the other SM11 master and slave units.
Do I need to install the main valve in some type of box? I worry the side jets will blast out a shower door? Maybe I need to wall up part of my 60" door to allow some jets to point to the back wall.

I see pipes out the top and bottom of the temp control valve... that may have been a no no.. I read that on a slightly different temp flex valve.

jadnashua 03-24-2018 04:56 PM

That valve is probably designed for a tub/shower...most all of them can have one of the outlets plugged if you don't need it. Note, the outlet for the shower is almost always slightly smaller, and if you're going to have multiple showerheads or sprays, you probably would find it better to use the larger outlet intended for the tub filler. Note that on some, the valve body can be rotated 180-degrees, but if not, then you'd need a loop to get the outlet up where you want it.

Elkski 03-24-2018 05:47 PM

The outlets are the same size. It was taken from a shower. I guess maybe one outlet went to the 4 side heads and was controlled by one valve and the other valve maybe was inline with the shower head??
Just a wild A guess .
I have read where its a good idea to have a balancing loop for the side heads.

How do I make all these intrusions waterproof?
I will have the top two shower heads in the ceiling.
4 side heads
2 control valves
1 main valve
steam inlet
relief valve inlet if that is legal?

total on walls 9
2 on ceiling

plus the bolts holding on the better bench. the instructions say to caulk the scree as you put it in but im not a fan of trusting that.

jadnashua 03-24-2018 07:33 PM

KerdiFix may work out...I haven't looked at it to see if it has a max temperature rating. The pipe seals may handle higher temperature. You'd have to call Schluter, if it's in their documentation, I didn't see it. I know some of their stuff has a max temp of around 180-degrees, which probably isn't good for a steam outlet, but fine for a showerhead or body spray.

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