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-   -   Newbie questions on the basics (I think) (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125454)

Clifford 06-04-2018 03:16 PM

Newbie questions on the basics (I think)
Hey everyone, Iíve been getting a lot of information from the site so thank you so far!

Iím creating this thread to use ongoin for questions I have during my shower remodel. I always research as much as possible, but when I ge in a time crunch or find opposing opinions I like to get clarification on forums like this with pros like you guys!
Iím redoing my shower with the Kerdi membrane on top of Durock/Schluter Pan/drain/the works, just donít know the tile type yet.
My first question is do I use a corner bead(vinyl?) on the outside corners of the shower where cement board meets cement board? What about where cement board meets drywall?
Second item- do I need to tape and mud the seams, inner and joint-outer instead of corner bead? I would feel much more comfortable taping and mudding with a thin layer of all set (thin set Iím using), letting that dry and then using the Kerdi membrane over. That does worry me, though, about creating a ďhumpĒ in the cub. Iíve read of people creating a dip when they go over the seams and filling in later if they donít tape and mud, but whatís preferred?

Iím using all Schluter All Set for this project.

Iím sure Iíll have more questions, but I greatly appreciate any input.

jadnashua 06-04-2018 03:34 PM

One of the beauties of using a sheet membrane is that the sheet performs the function of the tape on the seams...there is no need, and it's a waste of time and materials to deal with them and then install a sheet membrane over top.

A couple of things newbies may overlook that make the job harder:
- you MUST wipe the surfaces down with a wet sponge prior to spreading the thinset. This removes any dust and helps prevent sucking moisture out of the thinset too fast, making it much harder to embed the membrane into it.
- working with too big of a sheet can be problematic since that means you must spread out a lot of thinset, and when you're not experienced, that means a lot of time, so things start to dry out and the sheet won't embed properly. Use smaller pieces until you get the hang of it. As long as you have at least a 2" overlap, it will be waterproof, and it doesn't matter if you shingle it like a roof or not - just that it's overlapped.
- thinset doesn't 'stick' to the fleece...the thinset must be fluid enough to flow around the fibers. Once that happens, when it cures, it will cure around them, and lock it in place, but not because it is 'sticking' to the thinset.
- once you think you've got it properly installed, pull a corner back and look. If it isn't fully on both the surface and the membrane, you did something wrong. Because you now have thinset on both surfaces, it will go back in place almost like using Velcro...no major effort. If you don't have thinset on both, either you didn't wet the surface enough, or the thinset was too stiff, or you let it sit on the wall too long before you tried to put the membrane up. At that point, you can pull the sheet, scrape off the thinset, wash it out of the membrane and try again. If you wait, you'll likely pull some of the fleece off, which can make the membrane useless.
- while the membrane will be okay to start tiling to immediately, to perform a flood test, you should wait 24-hours. But, even after maybe as much as a week, you could peel the membrane off. After a month, you might be able to, but any time after about that first 4-5 hours, you'd probably destroy the fleece and the longer you wait, the harder it would be. Keep in mind, cement based products are rated after a 28-day cure cycle, but they continue to get stronger for likely a couple of years, but at a much slower rate. When you peel it back, all of your force is concentrated along a very fine line...but, try to pull it straight off, it would be really tough. When cured, the bond is typically in the 75psi range (has to be at least 50psi to pass the ANSI spec). More than enough to hold pretty much anything in place once cured.

Clifford 06-04-2018 05:26 PM

Incredible amount of information there. Thank you so much! I just cut my pan to fit the surround and corner bench.
Issue I just encountered was now my bench isnít totally square to the wall like it was before, donít know how that happened. Iíve got about a 1/4Ē gap on one side, about less than an 1/8Ē on the other. I believe the bench requires a 1/4Ē trowel, but should I attempt to shave down a hair from the backside so it sits closer than 1/4Ē? It sits square on the floor so Iím not messing with the angle, just trying to take a piece out of the lower back.

Tomorrow Iím planing on cutting the curb to length and doing an initial wipe down.

Oh! How do I go from the cement board to the ceiling? I didnít want to bring that piece down. Iím not planning on tiling all the way up. Also, thoughts on the corner bead question from earlier?

jadnashua 06-04-2018 06:34 PM

Using a level and square, check the area where the bench will fit. The top of the bench should have a bit of slope away from the wall so water doesn't pool there. Also check to see if the corner is square and the walls area actually plumb. THen, you can decide how best to seat the bench in place.

Wallboard corner bead would somewhat depend on where it is relative to the shower and where you intend to tile. A bit more of maybe a sketch or description would help.

Technically, you only need waterproofing to the height of the showerhead. You can run it further up and even on the ceiling, but unless it is a steam shower, that's not required. You can bridge cbu to drywall with the membrane and tile...in a dry area (that's anything above the showerhead), thinset and tile will bond fine directly to drywall. In reality, a shower is just fine using drywall on the walls when being covered with Kerdi. They have done all of the testing and certifications to prove it and get it passed by codes. One other sheet membrane has done similar testing. You should not use it in any situation unless there is a certification/test approving its use for that application, though.

Clifford 06-05-2018 05:51 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for the help again. Regarding the corner bead-see below. I’m referring to the entry way into the shower. Ther four outside edges(6 if you include the top), there are two inside and two outside. Shower head is on the right side. So question is-is a corner bead needed? I plan on tiling or using rondec on corners, not sure yet. Sorry picture is on its side.
Attachment 202354

If it’s not needed, how do you get a square edge with mud?

cx 06-05-2018 10:40 AM

If you plan to tile the jambs all the way to the corners, I would not use any corner bead. You can make crisp, straight corners using the paper drywall tape that has metal strips on both sides of the center fold.

If those corners will be covered in Kerdi, I woldn't use anything at all on the corners before applying the Kerdi.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Clifford 06-05-2018 06:42 PM

Got it. Iím goong to go with plastic bearing on the outside to ensure I gt a nice line. On the inside Iím going to get a corner trowel to help me with that.
I put the drain in place today.

I also ready that the bench issue is not just me. The slope is already built in, but one side generates about a 1/4Ē gap from the wall. Thoughts on how to remedy this? I was thinking of laying the Kerdi and then building out a little extra thinset, letting that dry nd then applying the thinset to adhere to the corner bench. Trying to get everything in line so I can knock out a bunch of this over the weekend!

Clifford 06-21-2018 10:53 AM

Kerdi Pan and membrane done-not sloped?
Hey everyone. Hoping this isnít a crazy big deal. I installed the membrane on top of the shower pan yesterday and one side appears to have some lumps. The level still is sloped to the drain, but there are some small ďvalleysĒ. Iím guessing I didnít squeeze enough thinset out, not sure though.

What are my options here? Could I apply a thin layer of thinset (1/8Ē) and apply another piece of membrane over it?

Clifford 06-22-2018 04:05 PM

Nothing? Going to do the water test tomorrow and see f any puddles from.

Kman 06-22-2018 04:51 PM

That's usually not a problem as long as the floor will drain. Without seeing what you have, it's impossible for us to tell for sure.

If it still drains properly, you can hide those valleys or bumps when you tile over them. It's easy enough to skim some mortar over the valleys to keep the tile flat.

Clifford 06-23-2018 11:02 AM

So I’ve noticed some areas(the higher part of a dipped area) are still “pliable” where thinset was used. I can still slightly push into these areas like the thinset is still wet. Around the drain and seams everything seems good and bonded tightly. I’m getting worried if I should redo something or proceed with a water test?

I just don’t want the tile to crack once I apply it if the thinset is not dry or something underneath? Could really use some help from the experts on here. Thanks guys and gals.

cx 06-23-2018 11:23 AM

What thinset mortar did you use to set the foam tray, Cliff?

What thinset mortar did you use to install the Kerdi?

Still the Schluter AllSet?

makethatkerdistick 06-23-2018 12:19 PM

I love the drywall tape with metal strips in it that CX mentioned. I have used it often!

Kman 06-23-2018 12:33 PM

If you've got lumps like that in the floor, it may require you to do a little surgery by cutting away a section of Kerdi big enough to remoythe lumps, then patching it with a piece with overlaps of at least 2" at every seam.

If you can get if fixed with a single slit, that's even better, but usually cutting three sides of a square to make a flap is required.

Clifford 06-23-2018 02:14 PM

Got it. I used all set for everything. I am thinking a three cut square may be the way to go. That way I can remove any mortar I can-somehow. Mix up some new stuff and patch it up.

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