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-   -   Repairing tile over kerdiboard (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=117130)

butterblood 07-27-2015 06:00 PM

Repairing tile over kerdiboard
 
It's been a while since I've posted here but I have a question for the pros.
I'll be honest I'm not a big fan of the Schluter shower systems but I have done a handful of them, all with Kerdiboard. One aspect I've always questioned was the integrity of hanging heavy glass doors or plumbing fixtures on tile glued to a 1/2" piece of foam. Even with the proper blocking.
Anyways, I did a shower over the winter that was prepped entirely by another installer because I didn't have the time.
We used 12x36" tiles on the walls.
A month after screwing the glass door hinges to the wall (installed by glass company) one of the tiles has cracked in all directions away from the three screws.
Now I'm not really concerned right now with how or why, I'm more curious if anybody has done repairs over Kerdiboard? What is it like trying to pull tiles off of it. I'd say it was done sometime before Xmas using Bostok Ditraset.
James

Brad Denny 07-28-2015 07:17 AM

James,
I couldn't say anything official, but I've used foam board to patch a few times. Take it for what it's worth...

In this case, the possibility of removing a piece and leaving the board intact is very slim IMO. Cutting straight through the board in the grout joint and removing the whole section might be best. I've blocked with Kerdi Fix'd strips of board to support the missing piece...which would need a bead of KFix all around as a sealant to the existing board to be waterproofed.

I've also "hot patched" with KBoard, but you wouldn't have a 2" area around this hole to adhere the facing without removing more tile.

I'm surprised the glass door would crush the board. I have no idea the actual numbers, but the point load shouldn't be greater than what a tiled board could handle.

butterblood 07-28-2015 08:06 AM

I'm not putting the blame on anybody yet. For now I just need to repair it. But it seems to me they would have had to crank those screws home pretty tight to hold the door. It's frameless so the door attaches directly to the hinges bolted through the tile. I'm just thinking it may have crushed everything tight.
But I agree. I don't see that piece coming off without opening up a whole other can of worms.
Hopefully the tile gods will be shining down on me that day.
James

John Bridge 07-28-2015 08:36 AM

I've seen references to using scraps of corian or something similar at the jambs where the hinges will be. the connection is waterproofed with Kerdi-band. I have never done a Kerdi-board shower with shower doors, so I'm not an expert here. :)

916tile 07-28-2015 12:02 PM

I have done a few repairs on Kerdi Board...
It definitely helps to make cuts in the tile with your grinder before you attempt to pry it off. At least do diagonals from point to point.
One thing you have working for you is that you know where your solid backing is and use that to pry off of.
You might get lucky and the bond from thinset to the tile may be stronger than the thinset to the K board. It may also just remove a layer of fleece.
As far as the extent of the waterproofing repair would depend on where it is. Is it the upper hinge or the lower?
If I were going to your job I would bring a scrap of K board with washers/screws, some 1X material or plywood scraps, a 2x4, some Kerdi band,a tube of kerdi fix, and your thinset. Then play it by ear depending on how the tile comes off.
Some of the porcelains we are working with these days, are very susceptible to a crack running out from a drill hole. I doubt it was from compression of the board if it had solid backing...but I could be wrong.

butterblood 07-28-2015 12:13 PM

Thanks guys
Yeah I'm leaning towards trying to get it off in small pieces at a time. Then maybe cutting out the Kerdi leaving a couple inches around the perimeter. Just replacing the meat of it. I believe it's the top hinge of 3 as I've only seen pictures.
I'm hoping it's not a full 3' piece but just an 18 incher.

Ken 07-28-2015 06:49 PM

My initial thought is butterblood originally posted that "proper backing" was installed.

Does this mean that proper backing was installed before the KerdiBoard? Example, 2x6 sistered between the wall studs for the door hinge screws. If so, then I don't think your problem has anything at all to do with the actual KerdiBoard, but instead with your backing. If you properly installed 2x6 and screwed a door to it, it's not moving less than a month later.

My first thought is that the glass company did not anchor into the backing, and instead just anchored into the KerdiBoard, which without knowing the specifications of the material, nor never have I used it, but I would have to believe that it would never hold a door.

jadnashua 07-28-2015 07:22 PM

The stuff has a pretty significant compression load capacity, but by no means would it hold a screw. Depending on the materials used and how dry they were, they may have dried out in that timeframe and could either shrink a bit or warp or twist. That's always a hassle with wood. Also, not knowing if it may have rained on the way from the lumber yard, or sat outside in the rain before installation, another hassle - the wood could have been soaked.

On thicker sections, like say on a foam curb, Schluter showed routing a pocket and thinsetting in a section of acrylic cutting board that would hold a screw, but you don't have enough material to do that with a typical 1/2" KerdiBoard wall panel.

Dan Kramer 07-28-2015 08:02 PM

I wonder if the tile had good (100%) thinset coverage behind it.

Tiger Mountain Tile Inc 07-28-2015 08:41 PM

It could be that the bolt for the hinge is off centered in the hole and maybe it's putting pressure on the tile when the door swings. I think they usually use sleeves around the bolts but it might be something worth looking at when you do the repair.

butterblood 07-28-2015 09:27 PM

That's always my first thought, Dan. Especially with such big tiles. I guess it's my nature to worry it's my fault.
When I say proper blocking the contractor typically supports walls that he knows are getting any type of glass doors. Whether they bolted all the way to structure or pre-drilled or not I don't know.
Like I said how or why I'm not too concerned with right now. I'm just worried about fixing it and whether it will happen again.
Honestly, in 18 years of installing I've never had to repair due to shower doors.
But I've only been using Kerdiboard for the past year or so.

Eschbach 07-29-2015 08:36 PM

Im with Dan.Lack of coverage might be the culprit.I have been using Kerdi Board for 4 years and have yet to hear of a door issue.


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