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-   -   Contractor walked off the job (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115235)

Lazarus 01-11-2015 06:28 PM

Isn't it amazing? The people out there that hold themselves up as a "Tile Technician" that, in reality, can't find their A$$ with both hands? :gerg:

"Industry Standards" be dammed. (Uh...I been doin' it this way for 30 years and I've had no problems...") Yeah, and HOW MANY of those "Thirty Year" projects have you checked on???? :bang:

Steve in Denver 01-11-2015 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kman
My understanding is that waferboard is just a cheaper version of OSB, and not something that I would choose as a subfloor.

I found this:

http://osbguide.tecotested.com/pdfs/en/tb103.pdf

which basically says that waferboard is similar to OSB but with all the pieces (wafers? strands?) randomly oriented whereas the OSB has a larger percentage oriented with the grain parallel to the long axis of the panel...

I'd like to know how they manage to make that happen...

Kman 01-12-2015 01:27 AM

Couldn't tell you about that.

Maybe with a pair of tweezers and a lot of glue? :D

SWB04 01-13-2015 12:34 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KMAN
"Is there plastic or felt paper behind the Hardibacker?"

Don't know. Doubtful. I filled the shower walls with a good quality insulation, but was out of town when the guy closed up the wall.


So, we demo'd the floor tonight.
  • Bad news: the guy painted Redgard on all the screws, requiring us to remove the RG from the wholes with a pick to be able to use the square drive bit to remove them.
  • Bad news: The guy followed standards, i.e. screws about 6" from each other; LOTS and LOTS of screws to remove. He also used an impact driver, and rounded off a bunch of the screws. He also counter-sunk most screws, burrowing them into the CBU (and leaving a bumpy surface as a result).
  • "Good News": The guy didn't believe in wasting glue on Hardibacker (see picture). Once the screws were removed, the CBU peeled right up.

I decided to compromise on my solution.

Floor:
  1. Layer 1: Existing 3/4" Waferboard
  2. Layer 2: 5/8" Plywood (per Hardie's spec), with 1.25" #10 CBU screws and Locktite PL 3x Premium Polyurethane construction adhesive (beads spaced 2" apart, per MIA's guidelines).
  3. Layer 3: Hardie 1/4" CBU, laid in unmodified thinset (skim coat, 1/4" notch), using the same 1.25" #10 screws, and filling joints and screw holes with thinset over fiberglass mesh tape. The Hardie will be set in the opposite direction to the plywood (there's no Hardie spec on this; just seems like a good idea), meeting all requirements (i.e. staggered joints, no four joints meeting in corners, etc.).
  4. Layer 4: 2 coats Redgard over everything (to guarantee a waterproof environment);
  5. Layer 5: Versabond and 1/2" Travertine.

Shower:

Jury's still out. The wall is "wavy" where the contractor installed the backer board, meaning that he didn't shim the walls to ensure a plumb fit. However, the wall itself appears plum from the top of the (adjacent) closet wall down to the shower tub. I'll ask the new installers coming in tomorrow if they want to try to float mortar work around the problem when laying the travertine, or rip out the CBU and start over. I suspect we'll keep the existing 1/2" CBU and fix the other issues.

Based on my experience removing the Redgard protected joints (1 coat only, I am sure), it's tough stuff, so I'm leaving the Redgard as is on the shower and tub surround joints. We'll apply unmodified thinset over the joints, just the same, to add some support. I was initially concerned that that the Redgard membrane would keep the thinset from sticking, but since mortar is applied over Redgard to install the tile, the mortar should cover the joints adquately. As I said earlier, I'll overcoat the entire shower and tub surround with Redgard anyway to ensure a watertight environment.

This is a less than perfect installation, but it's 10x better than where we were after the contractor bugged out.
  • It will be water tight, due to both Hardie and Redgard;
  • It will be rigid, with a 3/4" waferboard, covered by the 5/8" plywood plus 1/4" Hardie CBU. The joists are configured > L/720.

Thanks for the help. I'll post pictures if I get the time to take them.

Kman 01-13-2015 02:25 AM

You're correct in your assessment that it's a less than ideal solution. :)

One glaring problem I noticed is your plan to use 1 1/4" CBU screws to secure the 5/8" ply to the subfloor. You really shouldn't use CBU screws for that application, but even worse is that the screws aren't likely to have enough thread penetration to the subfloor. You don't mention the brand you plan to use, but sometimes the very tip of them don't even have threads, just a kind of pilot to get the screw started.

You should use a minimum 1 1/2" deck screws for securing plywood sheets together. 1 1/2" screws will completely penetrate the full thickness of the subfloor.

by-eye 01-13-2015 04:19 AM

You'd save a lot of time, money, and have a little less floor height if you just used ditra, and followed their instructions. And with what you saved, you could fix your shower. Any way...:goodluck:
Keep us posted.

SWB04 01-13-2015 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMAN
"One glaring problem I noticed is your plan to use 1 1/4" CBU screws to secure the 5/8" ply to the subfloor. You really shouldn't use CBU screws for that application, but even worse is that the screws aren't likely to have enough thread penetration to the subfloor. You don't mention the brand you plan to use, but sometimes the very tip of them don't even have threads, just a kind of pilot to get the screw started."

Backer-On 800-Pack #10 x 1-1/4-in Cement Board Screws

What's wrong with CBU screws?

3/4+5/8=1.375 " versus 1.25" screw

Sunk flush with the CBU, they should penetrate the full 1.25". Should the screws be popping out the bottom of the substate? I thought the top sheet of plywood wasn't supposed to be secured to the joists. I'd think that 1.5" would penetrate the joists in some situations.

Any how, I've got some gold zinc plated drywall screws about 1.5" which have worked pretty well for securing wood in all sorts of situations; I can use those for the plywood layer.

SWB04 01-13-2015 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by by-eye
"You'd save a lot of time, money, and have a little less floor height if you just used ditra, and followed their instructions. And with what you saved, you could fix your shower. Any way..."

I looked at using Ditra, and it looked like the roll I'd need would run several $100 (at least at the big box stores). The backerboard + Redgard won't cost more than the Ditra, and neither of those products are cheap, either.

Thanks.

SWB04 01-14-2015 11:25 AM

Question: How do you know if you hired the right tile guy?

Answer: He finds all the other guys mistakes (and quotes standards to back up his critique).

Just found out that the shower faucet is out of plumb. Add one more thing the licensed expert tile contractor forgot to check. We'll go through the closet drywall to resolve the problem without ripping up the shower CBU, but it's "just one more thing". (My wife says "let it go", but I'm getting angrier at this guy every day. I am BLESSED to have gotten rid of this guy before he "finished" the job.)

The new guy's young, probably second generation Hispanic ++, smart, very professional, and clearly knows what he's doing. He is **UNLICENSED** :wtf: (but will be sitting for the contractor's test this summer). I understand all the risks. He's taking on this as a side job at the request of a friend.

I'll let you guys know how this installation progresses, but I think we'll be done by Saturday. We demo'd the 1/2" Hardibacker yesterday, installed the 5/8" plywood (note to KMAN, with 2" galvanized wood screws), and 1/4" Hardiebacker in thinset with 1.25" CBU screws. The floor is clearly a lot more solid. It's like walking on rock. Redgard is going on now. So, all in all, I'm about $1800 over budget on this project, due to work that needed to be redone and additional materials required.

++ (Why did I bring race into this? Because "Eddie the Contractor" said "Go hire yourself a Mexican ..." as he walked out the door. So, I did. ;)

Kman 01-14-2015 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott
Why did I bring race into this? Because "Eddie the Contractor" said "Go hire yourself a Mexican ..." as he walked out the door. So, I did.

You took his advice again? :D

Custom Builder 01-14-2015 02:37 PM

What in the heck do you do for that nearly 1 1/2" threshold from bedroom carpet to bath tile/travertine? That'll look like cold dog turds no matter what you do. I'd use porcelain and ditra to bring that step down.

Sorry about your predicament, lots of good discussion here though.

by-eye 01-14-2015 04:35 PM

Scott, I'm curious, are you are coating all of the hardi cbu with red guard, or just the seams/fasteners like it was originally done?

SWB04 01-14-2015 08:16 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KMAN
"You took his advice again? "

Passive resistance, and hey, he could get it right eventually. Anything is possible. :D

(Actually, I'm not a "politically correct" guy, and genuinely "colorblind" in regards to race, but I knew that as soon as I described the guy helping us out, someone out there would take exception. I care about a person's heart, not the packaging.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Custom Builder
"What in the heck do you do for that nearly 1 1/2" threshold from bedroom carpet to bath tile/travertine? That'll look like cold dog turds no matter what you do. I'd use porcelain and ditra to bring that step down."

I was thinking along the lines of a trampoline. Big "wake up" everytime I head to the showers. :D

Actually, I compared the pre-travertine sub-floor (i.e plywood + CBU), and it was pretty much plum with the adjacent thick carpeting and pad. I've got a thick (maybe 6+ ") transition between the carpet and entry of the bathroom (i.e. no door on this 1990's puppy; au natural!). My transition problem will be that 3/4" of travertine and mortar, and I'll either buy a commercially made transition strip or make one out of layered strips of 1/4" plywood.

I'll do the same thing in the closet, and if it feels like I'm falling off the edge of the world when I go in the closet to get my shorts, worst case, I'll pull up the closet carpeting, install another layer of cheap OSB, and the closet will match the bathroom.

Not a perfect solution, but should be workable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by by-eye
"Scott, I'm curious, are you are coating all of the hardi cbu with red guard, or just the seams/fasteners like it was originally done? "

See pix. They'll be adding the second coat of Redgard on the shower walls down to the shower tub tomorrow, along with a few more pieces (i.e. transition strip along the closet door, etc.). Should be "zipped" tight in red.

Thanks, guys.

SWB04 01-19-2015 11:38 PM

Master Bath/Shower remodel; Glass door questions
 
1 Attachment(s)
My master bath remodel/Travertine installation is about done. The installers will be grouting tomorrow, and resolving a plumbing issue (original contractor failed to install shower faucet plumb to the wall). I'll post pictures down the line (because you guys will always ask :) ), but attached is a construction picture to give you an idea of how the door would fit. (Technical note: the shower enclosure shown was modified substantially since this picture to correct mistakes made by the original contractor).

The shower is a basic 42" x 42" shower (travertine walls are 52" x 52"), with 80" high walls, adjoining a bath tub. The glass will be an "L" shaped, with one side resting on the tub surround, and the other side supporting a 30" door (mounted into the wall at left) and 12" fixed wall (attached to the tub side at right).

I'm ordering the shower doors now, and have targeted clear, frameless doors (3/8" or 1/2" thick). I've reviewed notes on the forum about installers penetrating the shower tub (especially the curb) with fasteners, and will be alert to that. My preference would be to have the door open from the left (i.e. hinge on the bath tub side), but from what I've read, a frameless shower door must be wall mounted. I have studs installed on both walls to support both fixed mount points.

So, my question is, does anyone have any tips to offer on shower doors, from glass and features to installation? I've done just about everything involved with renovating a house, but I haven't ordered or installed a shower door yet.

Thanks.

cpad007 01-19-2015 11:50 PM

I just had our frameless shower doors installed earlier today, Scott. Ours is L-shaped as well, with the door mounted through the tile into the wall. There are no penetrations of the curb and the glass installer had no problem with that.

We ordered 1/2" glass as it just has a heavier more substantial feel and look to it but it does cost a lot more...but it does look much better IMO. We also ordered a "clear" type of glass that doesn't have a greenish tint to it. That added cost. We also had a clear coat sprayed/adhered to it to help miminize water spots, etc. That added cost. Finally, we had a special s-curve handle and the glass was cut at the opening to match the s-curve. THAT added cost, too.

I'll take pics of my shower glass in a couple of days as it is taped up right now with the silicone curing but there is a picture of it from the glass company's showroom in my thread somewhere.

We paid $2.8k for everything including installation. That took a little over 2 hours this morning.


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