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-   -   Toilet Closet Flange problem (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87830)

John Bridge 05-02-2010 01:28 PM

Hi Al, Go Army!. ;)

I think I would use the mesh tape on the crack and treat it like any other joint in the backer board. I'm not a backer board pro, though. :)

Houston Remodeler 05-02-2010 02:13 PM

Why worry about it? Tape and surface mud isn't going to add any real structural strength and we ain't worried about waterproofing here....

22" OC ? I usually add horizontal framing to studs that far apart.

custombuilt 05-02-2010 02:57 PM

I agree that is a little wide for stud spacing, but I wouldn't worry about that crack too much. Durarock sometimes has those.

Army1 05-02-2010 03:36 PM

Stress crack in Durock
 
Thanks a million. I'll add tape in that area and move on. I think i'll sleep better tonight. This site is excellent.

Army1 09-26-2010 07:06 AM

Toilet Closet Flange problem
 
1 Attachment(s)
In doing a bathroom remodeling, I had to relocate the toilet and as you can see from the picture the flange is offset. I'm now at the point of adding the tile floor and i have to resolve this problem. I can't slide the tile underneath one side and i'm at a loss on how to proceed. The options that i'm thinking of are:
1) Saw the flange from the inside out (PVC) and glue a new flange at the correct elevation using a union ( will need to get a tool)
2) Maybe just tile around the flange and add additional mud underneath the flange for support and add a beefy wax ring (with horn).
3)Breakup the concrete, again, and install a new flange to the proper height.
I have already run the toilet with option 2 but without the proper flange support and seems to work fine but i'm still concern. Please help. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Hammy 09-26-2010 07:47 AM

Al, can you get under the floor? If so you might be able to release some strapping and raise the pipe that 1/4" you need.

OR cut some plywood or wood to shim up the flange. The commode when installed does not sit or press down on the flange, actually it does just the opposite. When you tighten the bolts you are pulling up on the flange.

I personally NEVER run my tile under the flange.

Instead of the wood under the flange you could place a stack of washers under each bolt. I use coarse thread brass or rust resistant screws to secure the flange to the floor. The commode actually sits on the tile not the flange.

Hope all that helps. Hammy

Spence 09-26-2010 08:07 AM

I'm no expert, but I agree: I've never put tile under a flange either, though many folks around here might recommend it.

Another option for shimming the flange could be to use composite shims (I wouldn't feel comfortable with any kinda wood shims under a toilet).

Like Hammy said, the toilet base will be resting on the tile around the flange, and the bolts will pull the flange upward toward the toilet to make a tight seal. You do wanna make sure that the flange can't be moved upward when you tighten the bolts or when someone leans on the toilet. So, if it were me, I would probably shim it, put four tapcons through it into the slab, and then tile around it and use a big wax ring. (Of course, there is rarely a reason NOT to use a big wax ring.)

Scottish Tile and Stone 09-26-2010 08:11 AM

Ive done 1,000's of bathrooms and never ran my tile under the flange. The flange needs to be screwed down to the subfloor. If there is a slight height difference in the flange and finished floor, you can use a flange adapter or get a extra thick wax ring.

Looking at your pic, is that a wood subfloor your tiling over? Or are you planning on adding another layer of CBU or ditra?

Army1 09-26-2010 09:57 AM

Toilet Closet Flange problem
 
Sorry about the picture but the flange is on a concrete slab. It makes a lot of sense to tile around the flange. Should i then secure the flange to the slab with concrete screws and use good wax ring?

B Luv 09-26-2010 10:03 AM

That pipe is most likely secure in that concrete. I would shim that flange so there is no chance of snapping it off, but I think the screws might be over kill since it's set in concrete. Use a thick wax ring for sure and make sure it's seated properly.

If Davy's around he can show you a fast way to cut the circle in your tile with his new grinder! :stick:

Spence 09-26-2010 10:15 AM

I would highly recommend putting a few screws into the flange. If it were a one-piece flange, it might not matter, but since you have a steel ring you may experience a problem. The original flange in my guest bathroom was installed without screws. The flange was secure in the concrete, but the steel ring was able to twist ever so slightly around the flange. This introduced some unwanted movement to the situation, and over time that subtle movement caused the wax ring to fail.

When dealing with toilets, I like overkill! So much easier to put a few concrete screws in now than to clean it up later! :crap:

jadziedzic 09-26-2010 10:32 AM

The guys on Terry Love's plumbing forum may have some suggestions - one of them has said he can "peel" the hub part of the fitting away from the pipe, so that might be an option here.

cx 09-26-2010 10:40 AM

Al, once again, please keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see the history and what's been previously asked and answered. We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one. :)

The correct installation of a WC flange is on top of the finished floor, regardless how many folks tell you they always do it another way. I'd try to make mine that way if that's an option.

My opinion; worth price charged.

dhagin 09-26-2010 03:02 PM

The height of the closet flange is more important than whether it actually sits on top of the finished flooring material. As long as the height of the bottom of the flange is at the same height as the finished floor, you're good. Use plywood "shims" under the flange if needed for support & to raise it up. It's also important to have proper framing to support the toilet and that the flange is solidly attached to the framing. Floor mount toilets depend on a solidly attached flange to hold them down & keep them from rocking & rolling - which can cause leaks and other problems.

More wax rings or wax with an extension are not ideal solutions and can reduce the drain pipe dimension. Better to rough-in the flange to the correct height, or use a flange adapter(s) to bring it up to the correct height. :)

Hammy 09-26-2010 03:50 PM

I missed the first part where it was set in concrete. I too would tap-con it down. Do not over tighten the Tap-cons, resulting in a busted flange. If my flange is lower than the finished floor, I use an extender. Very seldom on a remodel do I have the flange sitting on the finished floor.

Hammy


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