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-   -   Cliff's Master Bathroom Thread (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=130525)

ss3964spd 03-01-2021 12:57 PM

I'd remove what's left of that wall too. Sometimes it's easier starting from scratch than it is trying to make/force something existing to work. When you rebuild that wall you can use glue and screws which will help. Still looks like a rather long pony wall, though, will be a challenge to stabilize it.

Shaklee3 03-02-2021 12:26 PM

Thanks, I've decided I will rip out the OSB in that area, along with the pony wall, and cut the drain from there. That should give a much more secure pony wall by mounting to the joists under the floor.

One quick question, I know it's popular here to set the drain 1-1/4" above the floor for the mud bed. However, the Mapei 4:1 mud mix says the minimum thickness is 5/8", which would allow for a much smaller surface. Is the 1-1/4" dictated by a certain mud mixture's strength such that I could potentially go smaller if the manufacturer says so, or is that dictated by something else? Edit, I forgot the tile + thinset thickness, so I'll go ahead and target 1-1/4" anyways.

But...one more question came up! I noticed Schluter's official shower with mud bed documentation doing the mud bed first, then doing all the seams everywhere after the mud bed has set. However, everywhere else I'm seeing people tend to do the walls first, including seams and all, then do the mud bed. I don't see anything in Schluter's documentation saying that's the wrong way of doing it, but they just don't show that. In my case, I have a bench I need to put in, so doing the walls + bench seams will certainly make the whole process easier since I don't have to worry about stepping on the thinset under the membrane and squashing it around. In fact, I'm not sure why Schluter even recommends doing that since I noticed that even over ditra walking on it or putting knees down before the thinset is dry causes divots, so it seems like it would be better to avoid that. If anyone has an opinion one way or another I'd like to hear it, but I think I'm going to plan on walls + bench first sealing all seams, then mud second.

cx 03-02-2021 10:37 PM

Cliff, when doing direct bonded waterproofing membrane showers, such as Kerdi, I don't even install the drain until I've finished waterproofing and tiling the ceiling and walls except for the bottom row and frequently even grouting those areas. One of the best features of that shower construction method to my thinking.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Shaklee3 03-02-2021 11:43 PM

Thanks CX! Any trick to making sure that first row is at the right height? Just thinking about it, it seems the best way might be to find the farthest point from the drain, calculate the height to the first tile plus grout line plus drain height, then add in the distance for another tile + grout line for the ledger board.

So for example, if my pan is 4'x4' and my drain is centered in that, the farthest wall is the corner at sqrt(2^2+2^2) = 2.82', which gives a minimum first tile height of 2.82 * 0.25 = ~ 0.7".

Assuming 4" tiles with 1/8" grout lines, I would set my ledger board at 0.7 (slope) + 0.125 (grout) + 4 (tile) + 1.25 (drain) = 6.075" off the subfloor. Once done, I can remove the ledger and build the mud bed up to a screed point that's based on the 1.25" + 0.7" to that corner. Does that all sound like what you'd do or am I overthinking it?

jondon 03-03-2021 09:21 PM

Hi Cliff:)

Are you an engineer, that looks like an engineer explanation... I read it but it was just way overthinking it imo since you asked.:bonk:

Because I am very simple I lay out the tile on the floor with the spacing I am going to use. Figuring for the height of the shower pan at the perimeter with the tile on the shower floor figured in. Now knowing the space to tile, I adjust the
top tile and bottom so I have good size pieces. So whatever I figure out the first row of tile to be I start the ledger there. If I am putting the pan in afterwards I calculate for that as well.

So if my pan is going to be 1 1/4" inch at the perimeter height and tile adds 3/8" with thinset I am off the floor 1 1/2" so I measure from there to the height of the first tile and my ledger board goes there. Hope that makes it easier.

Shaklee3 03-03-2021 11:46 PM

Thanks Jon! You got me -- I am an engineer , so I'm likely overanalyzing it. Your explanation is clear, and I figured it's also better to be slightly higher than lower to make the tiles a bit shorter rather than the grout lines a bit bigger. Thanks!

Shaklee3 04-01-2021 07:23 AM

Hi everyone, very slow progress over here due to limited time. I finished the floor and put up the kerdi board everywhere, and am getting ready to do the kerdi curb. I had a couple of questions on the curb:

1) I plan to do a solid stone piece in the curb and wall. Here too I've seen many method, including those that say only use silicone to stick it (didn't think it's an adhesive) to those that say just use thinset. What do the experts do?

2) on the solid stone, I was reading that pros cut a notch on the inside bottom so water doesn't come down and around to go back to the curb. Is this necessary? Can't this be accomplished by just using something that's pointy they I can stick under there?

3) is marble susceptible to staining by any of the normal shower usage? It looks like acid rain and leaks can cause stains, but it seems to be a popular choice. Is quartz better?

Thanks! It's surprisingly hard to find slab people in San Diego who will cut to size, so I'm having to look online, unfortunately.

cx 04-01-2021 08:33 AM

1. On a shower curb I'd bond it with thinset mortar.

2. I've never heard of a drip notch in a shower curb top, but there are lots of things I've never heard of.

3. Marble, 'specially white marble, will stain without provocation sometimes. Not a good choice for shower floor or curb or..........anywhere in the shower for my money. But folks like the look initially and that makes it a popular choice.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Shaklee3 04-01-2021 08:54 AM

Thanks cx! For #1 is thinset also okay for a pony wall with glass? I'm assuming yes since the shower curb is also like a tiny wall that will have glass

Shaklee3 04-05-2021 07:14 AM

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Just a quick progress pic. Everything is dry fit, and I just need a few more washers on the board, but otherwise I'm ready to start using the band.

Shaklee3 04-11-2021 07:53 PM

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Hi everyone, I finished waterproofing and am now planning the tile layout. These are 16x4 subways, which in reality are 15.625x3.875. the rear shower wall is 54.25".

I was reading a few threads here a while back that suggested for subway this large to do a 1/3 shifted layout instead of 1/2. However, either lining up the grout line in the center, or lining up the middle of the tile leaves a row at 1" or less on the end. In this situation should I just go with the 1/2" layout and be very careful with layout, or should I shift it so 1/3 works, but an asymmetric look?

Interestingly the manufacturer has the image on their site, which means no-go on 1/2.


ss3964spd 04-13-2021 01:12 PM

Cliff, the 33% offset recommendation is all about how flat - or not flat, the tile is, how much of a bow or crown they have. Place one tile on a flat surface, the kitchen counter will do nicely if Mrs. Cliff isn't around, so it it face up and place another tile upon the first but face down. See how much the top one teeters on the bottom. If it seems like a lot then going with the 33% offset will help reduce lippage. If it barely teeters on the first then use any offset you want. Might want to try several pairs from different boxes.

The 12X24's I used in my master bath will impressively flat.

Shaklee3 04-24-2021 08:08 AM

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Hi everyone, I ran into somewhat of an issue due to the order I was installing. I've been tiling the walls first so that I could avoid damaging the tile on the floor once I moved to that. I also installed the curb. However, I just realized that I didn't apply the kerdi corner membrane on top of the curb on the side of the curb away from the showerhead. As you can see in the picture here, I have a tile that only has about a 1-in gap on it. What should I do in this case? Should I try to smother the keric with kerdi fix on top and the bottom using thinset, or should I completely remove that one tile and apply it properly?

BIGPHIL 04-24-2021 10:28 AM

As an area of constant concern, my vote would be to carefully remove the tile (break it out gently with a nail punch) and then use a rub brick to smooth out the thinset the best you can. After that, apply the outside corner piece. I'd only be comfortable using the Kerdi fix if you had initially used Kerdi fix between the curb and the wall. Did you by chance?

Shaklee3 04-24-2021 01:27 PM

Hi Phil, no I haven't used any kerdi fix anywhere yet. Luckily this tile is right at the edge of a pony wall that is still exposed, so I can also chisel out from behind the tile fairly easily on the side. The other saving grace is that I forgot the stone that is going on the curb will put it up to at least this tile height, but I know that won't do a thing for waterproofing. So I will take it off and do it right. Thanks!

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