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-   -   which thinset? (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33329)

dpiscotty 03-06-2006 02:51 PM

which thinset?
I just put down 900sq ft of ditra yesterday and am about to start tiling tonight. I used the fortified thinset to put down the ditra without any latex additive. any issues with that? obviously too late if there is.

I also saw the good ole regular thinset that was 1/2 the price. which should I use to set the tile?


tileguytodd 03-06-2006 03:24 PM

Unless somethings changed recently, Ditra calls for a modified thinset for underneath and a non modified above.
I used either Mapei Ultraflex2 or Mapei kerabond mixed with keralastic to lay ditra and kerabond mixed with water for setting the tile.
If it was a small job I used a rapid setting Thinset Like Customs speedset or Laticrete's rapidset to set the tile. They dont want you to use a latex modified thinset unless it is an accelerated variety to set the tile unless you give it many weeks to set up before grouting it or walking on it etc.

You used a non modified to set the Ditra. Like you said, too late now.
I wouldnt worry about it because you cant change it.
If you have really expensive tile, then i would consider taking it up and redoing it.................Of course, you have voided your warranty and you may have problems down the road..............but then again you may not!!!

jdm 03-06-2006 03:28 PM

What thinset did you use? And what did you install the Ditra over?

Schluter wants modified under the Ditra if it's going over plywood, but unmodified if it's going over a slab.

Is your fortified thinset one with latex in the powder that mixes with water, or was it a true unmodified?

dpiscotty 03-07-2006 08:31 AM

uh oh. I'm thinking I screwed up now. This was fortified thinset that was just mixed with water, no latex additives, nothing. I'm thinking it has an increased psi since there was "regular" thinset in the bin next to this one. Am I going to have real issues?

Not expensive tile but 12" tile nevertheless. Wood floor 3/4" substrate. 1/2 of the floor 12" on center the other is 16" on center.

jdm 03-07-2006 08:40 AM

Some modified thinsets have spray-dried latex additives in the powder. They get mixed with just water.

And your 3/4" wood substrate, is that plywood, OSB, or something else?

cx 03-07-2006 08:42 AM

Tell the guys what thinset you used, dpiscotty, so they can give you a reading here, eh?

And please put your first name in a signature line for us. I know you have one, but there's too many of y'all to remember. :)

dpiscotty 03-07-2006 08:44 AM

It's versabond. I looked on the data sheet and it says you can use it on plywood floor as long as it meets deflection criteria. That I know I satisfy. It also does say what it should not be used on. It also mentions it's polymer modified. Does that help?

It's Dan


Mike2 03-07-2006 08:55 AM

VersaBond is just fine Dan. It's a lightly modified thinset mortar and is used for setting Ditra to plywood all the time. It's what I use and even what John Bridge uses. :nod:

cx 03-07-2006 08:57 AM

VersaBond is fine for installing the Ditra in that application, Dan.

Now, if you could tell what kind of tiles?

Schluter doesn't want you to use a modified thinset over the Ditra to set any kind of impervious (porcelain) tiles because of the afore mentioned drying issues. VersaBond is only slightly modified and you may well get by using it on top anyway - lots of people do. But thinset's cheap, and you could go get you some good-quality dryset (un-modified) to set your tiles and have met all the manufacturer's requirements. Or use the Versabond and make everyone else happy but not Herr Schluter. It's a strange little war they have going on there. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

Go to your User CP button near the top left of the page. Find the Edit Signature line. Type in Dan. Then you won't hafta type it in whenever you post. :)

dpiscotty 03-07-2006 08:58 AM

:goodpost: :clap2: :crazy: :clap1: :yeah: :shades: :laugh2: Whew!!!!! Man, I need a good cold shower now. THANKS!!!!!! smooch!


dpiscotty 03-07-2006 10:31 AM

Just plain ole ceramic tiles, 12". nothing special. Now that I believe I have satisfied the criteria for Ditra, I'm not sure if I should use the same stuff or just buy the $8.95 regular thinset mortar from Versabond or the, da da daaah, FORTIFIED, thinset. We're now talking only compression, right?


jdm 03-07-2006 10:45 PM

Hey Dots-Per-Inch Scotty --

Go read poor Kelly's (CX's) last post again. And then go create a signature before he starts chasing you around imitating an owl. :)

Schluter (the maker of Ditra) does not want you to use modified (fortified) thinset to set your tiles. They really don't. You can cheat a bit and use the lightly-modified VersaBond, as Kelly said, but you don't want any heavily modifed thinset, especially mixes that use a latex admix instead of water. (No FlexBond and no jugs of white liquid!)

If you want to follow the rules (and they're German rules at that) you should go back to Home Despot and get yourself some MasterBlend thinset. It's a good quality unmodified thinset.

dpiscotty 03-08-2006 08:42 AM

wait, wait. I did go immediately over and created "Dan" as my signature and saved it. Really! :tup2:

Anywho, I'll have to get that thinset. So, is that regular versabond unmodified thinset? How'dya tell? is it on the bag? :wtf:

Dan Dan Dan onlyinamerica Dan onlyinamerica Dan (had to make up) :moon:

cx 03-08-2006 08:59 AM

I can see it now, Dan! :)

VersaBond is a lightly modified thinset by Custom Building Products, the stuf sold at Homer's. MasterBlend is an un-modified thinset from the same line.

On the bag it'll say it meets ANSI A-118.1 if meets standards for a Dry-set (unmodified) portland cement mortar, and A-118.4 if it meets the specs for a latex-portland cement mortar.

Got that?

At Homer's, just buy MasterBlend if you want un-modified, Versabond if you want modified. Is easy. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

dpiscotty 03-09-2006 08:49 AM

thanks for the heads up. Last night I bought the customblend since they had no masterblend. What the hecks the difference? does it matter? Difference psi rating?

I'll keep the question there even though I just answered my own question. I went and got the data sheets for custom, master and premium plus standard thinset mortars. comes down to open/workable times and shear bond strengths.

That being said, you have:

customblend: 250psi/bisque.....195psi/porcelain...40-45 minutes open time
masterblend: 270psi/bisque.....227psi/porcelain...60-65 min open time
premiumplus: 357psi/bisque....244psi/porcelain....70-75 min open time

doesn't this come down to your floor deflection criteria therefore making these numbers somewhat useless? LIke saying backer board adds strength.


cx 03-09-2006 10:15 AM

Do not use the CustomBlend, Dan. Take it back.

Pay not much attention to thsoe numbers. Every bag of thinset out there will have numbers that satisfy minimum requirements. But they're not all the same.

Some of us really, really wish Custom would cease trying to sell that CustomBlend stuff. It's bad pookey. Get MasterBlend or go to Lowes and get you some Laticrete 317.

My opinion; worth price charged.

dpiscotty 03-09-2006 10:47 AM

:bang: Holy smokes, what's wrong with that stuff? I haven't used it but I was going to lay tile tonight. I don't have to use it and can take it back but really need to know why. Thanks for the alert...I think. :twitch:



dpiscotty 03-09-2006 12:58 PM

anybody at all?

bbcamp 03-09-2006 01:23 PM

Scotty, many of the pros have said that the Customblend just doesn't have enough portland cement in it to hold itself together, much less tile. Tile on Kerdi or Ditra pushes dryset to it's limits, so you want a dryset (unmodified thinset) that has better properties than the minimums set in the ANSI standards.

Take it back, get the better stuff.

dpiscotty 03-09-2006 01:30 PM

Great. Thanks. I'll even get the premium blend if the have it.

I appreciate it. you possibly saved me a lifetime of headaches. :bow:


cx 03-09-2006 03:39 PM

What Injineer Bob said.

I'm not sure what the chemical difference is, Dan, but you don't wanna buy anybody's five-dollar-a-bag thinset. Not good pookey.

My opinion; worth price charged.

dpiscotty 03-10-2006 08:51 AM

Ran to HD last night and they didn't have the masterblend so I ran to their competitor and they had Laticrete. I wasn't about to roll the dice on which one to get. They had various numbers associated to them. I figgered I'd wait one day and see what y'all recommend. Better to be safe than sorry.

cx 03-10-2006 08:55 AM

I tried to save ya a trip, Dan. From post #16:

Get MasterBlend or go to Lowes and get you some Laticrete 317.
Is good unmodified pookey. :)

dpiscotty 03-10-2006 08:59 AM

:bonk: sorry. Guess I need to read a biiiit more carefully. got it! much thanks! :)

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