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-   -   Some questions-noble shower (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=130643)

The77boudreau 03-04-2021 08:50 AM

Some questions-noble shower
I'm doing post hurricane repairs and renovations (still....) and my wife and I decided to remove the fiberglass 80s shower/tubs to do tile showers in two of our bathrooms.

-- With a hex tile in a mosaic format, approx 2" chips, what big box thinset would be good for a shower floor and that tile? I know very little about the specifics and differences of the Mapei and Custom Building Products thinsets.
It's going on top of a Noble ValueSeal membrane. Our joists are 2x10 with 2x8s sistered on the bottom with a 5'2" span. Double 5/8" subfloor currently but I need to take it up to move the drain. Tub to shower reno.

-- The other question currently is for the walls. We are looking at a 12x24 porcelain to also go on the Noble membrane bonded with Noble Bond EXT to Durock. Will that be a different thinset? Something like Versabond LFT I assume?

-- The last question currently is about thinset color(s). The Mini hex mosaic on the floor is matte black and the porcelain wall is a raw cement look. Would it be best to use a white thinset for the wall and a gray for the floor? I have no idea here and reading directions pretty much specifies things like modified or not, trowel dimensions, substrate, etc.

I'd be more than happy to answer any more questions that may come up or take critiques of any selections thus far. I've learned a ton here lurking the past few years but hurricane Laura dumped 20 years worth of projects on me all at once.

Thank you,

The77boudreau 03-07-2021 12:14 PM

I'm at a point now where I was curious if there are benefits or drawbacks of embedding backer board (durock in this case) in my mud bed?

I'm using a surface membrane ,and if I understand correctly, a cement backer can go either way with my choice of materials.
It may make marking a level screed line easier if embedded but that is just a noob guess looking at my next few steps.

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated, this is new ground for me.

cx 03-07-2021 12:35 PM

Welcome, Russ. :)

Looks like you got missed with your first post. Sorry about that.

We don't know the actual difference between Custom and MAPEI products, either. Both Custom and MAPEI will know, but neither will tell you. Both make some good products, each makes at least one I would not recommend you use.

I would use white thinset mortar for all your applications because I can. No technical reason to use any particular color in any application you've described.

If you'll read the installation instructions for the Noble product (and I recommend you always do that) you'll find they require you use a modified thinset mortar meeting ANSI A118.4 over that product.

The joist span that's important to you is the unsupported span of the joist, not the span of the area to be tiled. That's what you measured at only five feet?

Your new subfloor requirement will depend upon your joist spacing, which we do not know.

Embedding the CBU wallboard in the top mud bed of a traditional shower receptor is a good thing and the only real way you have to anchor the bottom of the wallboard where you cannot use mechanical fasteners.

My opinion; worth price charged.

The77boudreau 03-07-2021 12:45 PM

Thank you, the wall board detail helps. The joist span is 61.5" unsupported. As far as the noble value seal membrane I'm using their noblebond ext adhesive.

Would it be a big mistake to use the versabond LFT for the 12x24 wall tiles. I went and bought that and the versabond modified thinset for the floor, unfortunately they only had the grey. Is there a difference in bond, set time or anything I should be concerned about with the gray vs white for the floor mosaics?

I appreciate the help, reassurance or even correction as this is new ground for me. I felt more comfortable diy'ng my mini splits or uprading my service entrance, although I was a little nervous when it came time to flip the switch....lol.

cx 03-07-2021 02:28 PM

I understand you're using the EXT to bond your ValueSeal to the wallboard, I'm reminding you that you must use a modified thinset mortar to bond your tile to the ValueSeal.

Technically no difference between gray and white VersaBond, but whomever "they" are can get you either color.

I've never used the VersaBond LFT, but it should work. If your walls are flat and your tiles are flat, the regular VersaBond should work just fine.

My opinion; worth price charged.

The77boudreau 03-07-2021 02:35 PM

Thank you again CX. I appreciate the assistance. I didn't even explore the use of non modified thinset as I thought that unless it was specified for a system or specific product there were no benefits to using it.

Back to work now!

The77boudreau 03-11-2021 06:23 AM

I'm back with another question. Is it necessary to use membrane flashing gaskets for a diverter valve and shower head arm that bonds to a surface membrane?

I'm guessing that its necessity in a steam shower, but this is a pretty modest 2 head shower. One rain head in center of ceiling with a handheld mounted chest high on a side wall.

My apologies is my terminology is off on some of the components, plumbing is a new area to me.

ss3964spd 03-11-2021 09:39 AM

I'd consider those gaskets necessary only if the penetrations in question will see a lot of water or, in the case of the valve/diverter, if the cover plate for it will be mounted on tile that has such an uneven surface that the integral gasket on the back of the cover plate cannot seal against the tile face.

The last two bathrooms I demo'd, both 40 years ish old, had standard shower head arms installed through plain old drywall with simple escutcheons, and there was zero water damage to the drywall. Similarly, once the tile was removed from around the shower valve there was also no noticeable damage to the drywall (yes, the tile was installed directly to the drywall).

The gaskets certainly won't hurt, and may offer peace of mind, and are cheap insurance.

The77boudreau 03-11-2021 10:11 AM

Thank you sir, I'm just not sure if the noble diverter trim would work on the delta ara trim and rs22000 rough in I'm using since it has 2 valve body penetrations that are different sizes about an inch apart. For $29 though I may roll the dice and detail it as good as I can. I'm sure I can either help or do nothing extra.

I appreciate the help.

The77boudreau 03-12-2021 12:17 PM

Question on screed boards
I've seen mention of using 1Xs for screed boards cut to workable lengths for pan shape/size....is the reason for 1Xs vs 2Xs more about the shape than dimensions?

One bys tend to have rounded edges rather than square edges on most or all sides on 2Xs.

Or is it the sectional width helps pack better since it's thinner edgewise for more pressure?

I like to know the why's that go with approved and optimal practices and methods. Thank you in advance and sorry for such a trivial question.

cx 03-12-2021 12:25 PM

Russ, you need only try screeding that small area with 2x material and 1x material to see the difference. I think you'll choose the 1x every time. Or something thinner.

Originally Posted by Russ
One bys tend to have rounded edges rather than square edges on most or all sides on 2Xs.

In my experience it's just the opposite. It's the 1x that usually tend to have square edges, which is just what you want for the application. In fact, the 1x material that I use more than once go through the jointer after cleaning and drying to sharpen them for the next use.

No question here is trivial if you need the answer. :)

The77boudreau 03-14-2021 08:47 AM

Thank you for the advice....and yes, 1xs are better screed boards all day.

The question at hand is about access for upper wall tiles. Once my pan is cured (24 hr cure), will I be able to setup a rubber footed ladder on it? Would it be wise or unnecessary to put some dense closed cell foam under the feet for weight distribution?

I'm probably overthinking it and underestimating the strength of the deck mud. It's seems like a lot of point loading directly under the ladder feet. I'm not a very big guy if that at all matters(~170lbs)

Thank you in advance and for the past help. This forum is amazing as so many trades guard their stuff like it's top secret info.

ss3964spd 03-15-2021 08:33 AM

Russ, your point load assessment is correct - you should definitely consider placing something under the ladders feet to spread the load. If you have any 1/4" sheet goods laying about that would be great, flexible enough to conform to the pan without the corners digging in, thick enough to distribute the load.

The77boudreau 03-19-2021 11:39 AM

Thank you SS. The dry pack was every bit as easy as said by the experienced forum members. I would rather not have to redo it since time is precious for me since my paying job takes up so much.

Current question is regarding schluter trims, specifically Rondec on the seat edge of a framed corner bench. I intend to use Quadec to frame a niche, Jolly or Schiene ( I get the application confused) for wall and outside corner edges, and Rondec for the seat edge. Quadec is pretty foolproof with it's corner pieces, but how to I cleanly terminate the Rondec at the walls where the bench edge intersects?

Would a 45 degree miter, cope the wall tile to accept the profile and leave room for some Color-sil to seal at the change of plane be best? I imagine it's installer choice but that is the cleanest option I can think of rather than butting the miter to tile face or forcing it to meet in a grout line.

Any other ideas or would a different profile be better perhaps? I'm a little ahead of myself currently but I believe I need to iron this out in order to layout my wall tile. Thank you in advance.

The77boudreau 03-23-2021 04:56 PM

Saw blade and schluter trim Q's
Another quick question to go with my previous about the Schluter trims. Would the Pearl Turbo Mesh be a decent go to blade for my tile selection, all porcelain, no glass and 7" wet saw?

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