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-   -   The health care debate (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=74637)

Maniac979 03-14-2014 02:52 PM

"If you want to opt out, you must sign an agreement to forgo all medical treatment, or pay 100% of the bill if you do use it, or go to jail and be placed at hard labor until the bill is paid."

I can support this!

Who are your senators?

LGB 03-14-2014 02:55 PM

Marty, laws do not give you rights. Never have, never will. Rights can not be given or taken.

Houston Remodeler 03-14-2014 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon
Rights can not be given or taken

Incorrect;

The 15th amendment gave Black men the right to vote 1870

Women's right to vote was the 19th amendment ratified August 1920

Voting at age 18 was the 26th amendment 1971

We can argue about the 24th amendment being a 'right' under the terms set above.

Houston Remodeler 03-14-2014 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty
Just curious how the people who never had insurance, knowing that they could just go to the ER and be stabilized if something came up, then later rationalized bankrupting out of paying it console their actions. Is that one of their rights too?

That's what happens (and has been happening for decades) before the ACA. Or just skip out on the bill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty
Maybe a return of debtors prison could persuade a different viewpoint.

Great idea !!

LGB 03-14-2014 03:18 PM

I don't consider voting as a right. It is a privilege given us under this form of government. Every human being has certain rights that can not be given or taken by man unless we allow it. The laws of nature are what gives us our rights, not man...

Houston Remodeler 03-14-2014 03:23 PM

I can see that Leon, but the Constitution does use the word "right" in those very amendments.

LGB 03-14-2014 03:44 PM

There was a time that only land owners could vote. Lots of white men were not allowed. How is that a right? Rights are universal. Health care is NOT a right. It is a service that someone pays money for. You don't pay for rights.

MDtile 03-14-2014 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LGB (Post 1332528)
Marty, laws do not give you rights. Never have, never will. Rights can not be given or taken.

Leon....how can I get you to understand about rights without law?

How about this: in a world without law, you have the right to try to defend yourself against every other person you run across by telling them to leave you alone you have rights, but I would suggest you do whatever you can to kill him before he kills you, because he just might not want to respect what you are trying to tell him. He just might show you that he has the right to take what's yours, rape your wife, maybe you too, because he can. That's all the rights he needs.

LGB 03-14-2014 04:26 PM

Marty, that is so convoluted that I don't know where to begin. Your rights exist only to the extent that they don't infringe on others. Did you ever hear "your rights end where another persons' begin."

Law defines the consequences to those that would infringe on the rights.

MDtile 03-14-2014 05:50 PM

Ok Leon, I'll bite. Explain to me just exactly what your natural rights are.

Please be sure to leave out any reference to religious text, or reference to the Constitution etc, as those are written by men, constituting law.

LGB 03-14-2014 05:58 PM

I'll let the signers of the declaration do that for you Marty.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. "

blue_can 03-14-2014 07:42 PM

By default no one has any rights on this earth. Unless I missed something the concept of rights and laws/declarations outlining such are man made.

Tiger Mountain Tile Inc 03-14-2014 08:47 PM

The left seems to think that everyone that doesn't like Obamacare wants to go around uninsured. This isn't the case. I'll bet most people on here were already insured prior to being forced to be insured.

I know I had insurance. Better coverage, lower limits, less expensive. I liked my plan... I thought I could keep it. :(

Tiger Mountain Tile Inc 03-14-2014 08:52 PM

Being forced to carry insurance and having insurance are not necessarily the same thing, right? So what happens if someone lets their policy lapse? They would get stuck with the whole bill, wouldn't they? Basically nothing changes in this regard?

blue_can 03-14-2014 09:20 PM

Are you on the "right" Jim? ;)


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