Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php)
-   Tile Forum/Advice Board (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Kids Bathroom Renovation (https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129564)

arnav 07-28-2020 06:26 PM

Kids Bathroom Renovation
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi All,

Background:
- South Florida 3 story town home. 18 years old.
- Small kids bathroom renovation 5’ x 8’ x 9’
- Haven’t been demoed yet
- The tub’s back wall is cinder block (external)
- The two adjacent walls are steel studs (internal)
- Putting in a steel Tub. Lifting a cast iron 3 stories up was out of the question and I was concerned about the longevity of acrylic.
- Waterproofing: poly or felt.
- I have access to the plumbing from below and from the side


I used an inspection camera to peak at the back wall. Tiles over sheetrock. No CBU.
They used 1 x 2 furring strips instead of 2 x 2s like the rest of the house (see pic from another bathroom that was already demoed).
These 1 x 2s are very flimsy and there is no way I am keeping them.
But here is my predicament. With the current 1 x 2s, the toilet is exactly 15” O.C. to the bathtub edge as per code. If I use 2 x 2s the bathtub edge will be moved closer to the toilet (not meeting code).
I can’t move the toilet since it is also already 15” O.C. to the smallest vanity we could find. Yes, small bathroom…

So,

1. Can I make it work with 1 x 4s? I know ideally screws should bite at least 1” so I don’t know if 1 x 2 or 1 x 4 really help in that regards.

2. What about 1 x 4s, hold the CBU in place with a few temp screws and use tapcons to screw the CBU directly to the blocks (through the moisture barrier and 1 x 4s)?

3. I can notch the 2 x 2s in half so that the Tub is no further away from the wall than it is now, but the CBU and tiles will cover a lot more of the flange than they otherwise would making it look weird?

What do you think?

cx 07-28-2020 07:52 PM

Well, you're not lettin' any grass grow under you between projects, young fella. :)

I think I'd like to see photos from farther back to get some perspective on what you're showing us, Dan.

arnav 07-28-2020 08:39 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Not really if you ask the Mrs. :)

The pic is from another bathroom where they also used a 1 x 2 furring strips so a perspective on that one won't help. I haven't demo'd the bathroom yet so I can't show you the real thing yet (I used an inspection camera to see what is going on behind the tub).

Maybe this will help. I just removed a small section of drywall above the tiles so you can see what I mean with the current 1 x 2 furring strips.
The rest of the house uses 2 x 2 furring strips. Not sure what made them use 1 x 2 in the bathrooms.

Note to self: don't put weight on the soap holder :)

ss3964spd 07-29-2020 08:03 AM

I don't see that you have a lot of choice, Dan, you'll have to stick with 1X's on that block wall. The only reason I can see to swap the existing 1X2's for 1X4's is that you could fasten the 1X4's more securely to the wall.

Use either a CBU with a liquid based membrane or drywall covered with Kerdi.

arnav 07-29-2020 03:42 PM

Thx! I am happy the 1x4s is not a no-no. I'll make it work then. I may put a few tapcons through the CBU as well for a good measure.

Can't I use 6 mil poly as a moisture barrier?

----------------------------------------------
The bathroom is right underneath a termite hot spot in the Attic. Some years they win, some years I win. This year has been especially bad in FL. With the new renovation I’ll stay more on top of it but I am on a mission to try and avoid wood as much as possible.

I am looking for creative ideas as to what other materials I can use.

1. On the drain side, to overlap the CBU over the tub’s flange, what do you think about
furring over the metal studs with 1/4” PVC molding?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Royal-Mo...8005/202089995 (Royal Mouldings 1/4 in. x 1-3/4 in. x 8 ft. PVC Composite White Lattice Molding)
or rip from
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-...XWS6/312995340 (Veranda 1/4 in. x 24 in. x 4 ft. White Reversible PVC Trim/Sheet)

2. Similarly, what do you think about 1 x 4 PVC trim for the tub’s ledger boards:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-...0408/301950305 (3/4 in. x 3-1/2 in. x 8 ft. White PVC Trim)

ss3964spd 07-29-2020 04:09 PM

You can use poly as a moisture barrier behind a CBU, but if you do then you do not want to use any other water proofing method.

I can't see any reason why you shouldn't use those 1/4" PVC strips to fur out the CBU. I would not use TapCon's for the CBU for fear of "screw jacking" the 1X furring strips off the block wall. I would ensure the 1X's are solidly attached to the block and then use only CBU screws to attach the CBU to the 1X's.

I would not be in favor or using 1X4 PVC for the tub ledger. The stuff is just too flexible and not to be used as a "structural" member. Surely there is some brand of termite resistant 2X4's available down there?

arnav 07-29-2020 04:52 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Got it.
  • No TapCon
  • Yes for 1/4" PVC CBU furring strips
  • No pvc for tub ledger
Fair enough. I now need KDAT furring strips for the wall anyway. It's weird. Homedepot stopped selling non-green KDAT lumber down here. Lowes seems to have some. Otherwise, I'll track a lumberyard.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. The steel tub has foam underneath which kaldewei said should be kept there for deadening / leveling (a knowledgeable human actually answers the phone!). They said I don’t need to embed it in mortar but I can if I want to (and I will). Do you also secure the tub flange? S.S washers? Screw clamps? Kitchen sink like clamps? Tabs of some sort?

2. Any reason not to use a 24” long (I.D 22") shower niche if the dimension of the wall from tiles to glass door is 28”? I'll have 3" of tile coverage on each side. Just a matter of personal choice?

3. The toilet’s plumbing is fairly new and beautiful (cause I did it of course). :)
Could have probably used a metal strap to secure it further. I am wondering if I can avoid having to redo it. I know the flange has to sit on top of the tiles.
- Can I get away making a hole just big enough in the CBU to insert the toilet flange through it, tile, and then secure the flange again?
- Butt two sheets of CBU at the toilet flange?
Sorry, just looking for discounts... :)

cx 07-29-2020 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan
Homedepot stopped selling non-green KDAT lumber down here.

Dan, I question whether your HD ever sold any KDAT lumber. I've never seen any such in a HD store, only regular treated wood. Indeed, in all of San Antonio, TX I think there is still only one lumber company that carries KDAT lumber at all. I haven't actually bought any for a couple years, but I know it's still not a common item in these parts. Perhaps it is in Florida.

And I would want KDAT if you plan to use treated wood in that application.

1. I would follow the manufacturer's installation instructions. I don't see a link to the tub you're installing. You posted one?

2. I recommend you consult Mrs. Dan for such purely aesthetic decisions.

3. Not sure I understand the question. Mostly the "secure the flange again" part.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Maniac979 07-29-2020 05:53 PM

Not a pro here by any stretch of the imagination...but why wouldn't you use a 3/4" metal furring channel?

jadnashua 07-29-2020 06:26 PM

Don't want to throw a wrench in the mix, but if your choice of a steel tub is that you think it will last longer than acrylic, you're probably wrong. The steel tubs dent easily, the paint chips, and they rust, steel being what it is, it doesn't take much for it to get messed up. Now, not all acrylic tubs are great, either, but some are pretty good. With either, you want to ensure they are bedded properly, or they'll flex which will tend to crack the paint on the steel ones, and put stress cracks in the acrylic. If they are well bedded, that flex will be eliminated if done right.

arnav 07-29-2020 06:44 PM

My concern with Acrylic was the cleaning with harsh chemicals bleach, Lysol, 409 type thing.

This is the Tub: https://www.kaldewei.us/products/bat...ct/cayono-5ft/

Tub library: https://www.kaldewei.us/service/medi...c7a892bd15dea2

Installation instructions: https://kaldewei-fa.secure.footprint...__________.pdf

Made in Germany! I looked for a while for a steel tub that was more on the modern side.
Definitely looks sharper than the 18yrs old steel tub it is replacing.

arnav 07-29-2020 06:47 PM

Lowes seems to carry quite a bit of KDAT lumber down here. Manufactured by "Severe Weather." I haven't checked its moisture content, but is listed as KD and "local pickup."

Here are some examples: https://www.lowes.com/pl/Pressure-tr...ies/4013895981

Direct link for a few in case the above doesn't work for you:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...umber/50121083
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564678
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564608
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564606
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564620

Unless I am missing something?
When I get some, I'll check the moisture content.


I remembered the HD website listed some KDAT stuff, but I can't attest as to which zip codes it is available in if at all. Maybe they can special order it? Seems to mostly be decking related lumber.

cx 07-29-2020 07:22 PM

That's interesting, Dan.

I see no indication that the Lowe's products in any of your links are KDAT lumber. The HD links do say that and I admit I've never seen that before. I'm still a bit skeptical, but that's just my nature.

Please do tell us what you find when you go looking for the stuff. Even at my favorite San Antonio lumber yard where the KDAT material has been available for many years, it's not uncommon for me to check the piles and find the stuff registering above 30 percent moisture content.

Comes out of Houston, so maybe it was actually dried to under 19 percent and just got that wet after coming out of the kiln. :D

My opinion; worth price charged.

arnav 07-29-2020 07:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Please click / expand the "Specification" section (see attached pic).

arnav 07-29-2020 07:39 PM

Re:

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnav
I am wondering if I can avoid having to redo it. I know the flange has to sit on top of the tiles.
- Can I get away making a hole just big enough in the CBU to insert the toilet flange through it, tile, and then secure the flange again?
- Butt two sheets of CBU at the toilet flange?

Basically, do you have to cut off and remove the PVC toilet flange if it is in a good shape?

Previously I would:
1. Cut off the toilet flange out so that I have a bare PVC pipe.
2. Screw the CBU down, with a hole in it so that the PVC pipe can fit through
3. tile
4. screw the toilet flange down on top of the tiles.

Whereas now, since the flange is in a good shape and fairly new, I am wondering if I can leave it be:

1. Unscrew the current flange from the tiles
2. Demo/remove the old tiles and CBU
3. Screw new CBU down but make a hole big enough in it so that the toilet flange can go through
4. Tile
5. Screw toilet flange over new tiles.

Only the tiles would hold the actual flange (since the hole in the CBU was made big enough for the flange to fit through when screwing the CBU down)

jadnashua 07-29-2020 07:47 PM

The key on the lumber is when is it treated...you want the treatment, then kiln drying, not the other way around, well, actually it ends up being dried twice so there is room for the treatment to penetrate. All lumber needs to be KD, but not all treated lumber is KDAT unless it is specifically stamped and labeled as such.

arnav 07-29-2020 07:56 PM

Well, they list their PT lumber under two categories: Green or Kiln-Dried. The ones i linked to are PT KD (which I assume is the same as KDAT?)

cx 07-29-2020 08:11 PM

I do not think that is a fair assumption, Dan.

I'll be curious to see what you find when you check the moisture content. Actually, it's usually enough just to lift a piece and judge how heavy it is to determine if it's been properly dried after treatment.

And I gotta agree with Jim. I've never seen a piece of KDAT lumber that didn't have a plastic tag on it saying what it is, but perhaps that's only the Houston facility that does that.

My opinion; worth price charged.

arnav 07-29-2020 08:16 PM

I'll bring the moisture meter with me. You may have to bail me out if they arrest me for suspicious behavior.

BTW, for a DIY'er who is not in a rush to complete a job, is KDAT really required?
When I re-drywalled this entire house, I got regular 2 x 2 PT furring strips from HD. I weighed them down in the house under blocks (and blocked the sides as well) and then let the AC (which runs here 24 x 7!) do its job. It definitively takes a few days sometimes a week or so depending on how wet it is but in the end the moisture content does go all the way down. Of course it only works if you have a moisture meter but they are not expensive. Not all end up stick straight but I don't think i ever not ended up using one.

That also works right?

cx 07-29-2020 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan
...but in the end the moisture content does go all the way down.

All the way down to what?

Dan, I'd be terribly surprised if you could actually get a piece of pressure treated wood from its off-the-truck state to below 19 percent moisture content in just a few day in your air conditioned room. Even a piece as small as a 2x2. In fact, I'd be willing to wager large dinero against the possibility.

What sort of meter are you using?

arnav 07-29-2020 09:09 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-...-MM8/205519129
Manual/Spec (PDF): https://images.homedepot-static.com/...cdda635293.pdf

I picked it up a few years back off the shelf at HD. Measures wood, hard wood, and concrete.
Its been a while since I used it but it provides a nice digital read-out of the moisture level, a green/amber/red zone indication, and alert beeps that really wakes you if you are sleepy.

I put it to my forehead and it indeed confirmed we are made mostly from water... :)

arnav 07-29-2020 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CX
In fact, I'd be willing to wager large dinero against the possibility.

No need to wager $. I'll settle for your advice here...
You are underestimating my 5 TON Rhem A/C.
Should we do a science experiment?
Tell me how long you want me to dunk a piece of wood in water (overnight will suffice?) and I promise to post daily shots of the moisture meter. You'll see. Its been a while since I did this but it is about 10% to 15% reduction a day.
Some of the HD PT stuff was literally dripping wet.

arnav 07-29-2020 10:18 PM

So thinking about it, the whole dunking in water test is probably stupid.
I have no idea what is the rate at which different woods absorb water. If the test is conducted with PT wood I have laying around, it has already been treated to repel water.
In a home setting you wouldn't be able to replicate the pressure in which the mfr. "injected" the treatment into the wood.
So assuming this is a quality moisture meter (it does say professional on it so it must be good right? :)), perhaps it simply make sense to get some standard PT HD lumber, and then show you the declining moisture level over time.

Why is it far fetched? Don't they similarly say to let wood acclimate on the job site before you use it?

Either way, apologies if I am coming across as argumentative. Just wanting to learn.

And if I do come across some KDAT lumber around here, I am definitely sticking with that. No reason not to...

cx 07-29-2020 10:21 PM

The advice here is always free, Dan, been that way these twenty years and more. The value of my portion of it clearly stated. :)

You using a pin-type meter?

Soaking a piece of wood in water won't approximate the condition of pressure treated wood. Let's just agree that I think it's not a good idea to use that wood behind a ceramic tile installation unless it measures at least below 19 percent moisture content and preferably a good bit lower than that.

We rarely use those concrete blocks for exterior walls in residential construction in my part of the country, so I honestly don't have much real experience with that sort of wall. Your application would be one of the few where I would think one of the foam backer boards might be really useful, providing you could accommodate any wiring like I see in one of your photos. Bonding the foamboard directly to the CMU wall seems an inviting possibility.

I think I might even be inclined to glue strips of such foamboard in sufficient thickness to the CMU wall as furring strips for the final foamboard wall. Stuff's pretty grossly expensive for most applications in my view, but that might be an exception.

Just how much trouble do you folks usually have with moisture coming through those walls?

My opinion; worth price charged.

arnav 07-29-2020 11:00 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by CX
You using a pin-type meter?

It is a pinless type meter and a few $ more than the pin-type ones they carry.
I am using this one (pic a few posts above): https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-...-MM8/205519129
Manual/Spec (PDF): https://images.homedepot-static.com/...cdda635293.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by CX
Let's just agree that I think it's not a good idea to use that wood behind a ceramic tile installation unless it measures at least below 19 percent moisture content and preferably a good bit lower than that.

Agreed! This is exactly what I have done when I dry-walled the entire house. Again, assuming this is a reliable meter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CX
We rarely use those concrete blocks for exterior walls in residential construction in my part of the country, so I honestly don't have much real experience with that sort of wall. Your application would be one of the few where I would think one of the foam backer boards might be really useful, providing you could accommodate any wiring like I see in one of your photos. Bonding the foamboard directly to the CMU wall seems an inviting possibility.

Bingo! This is exactly what I did in the entire house as well (see attached pics). The only difference is that around here they tend to mostly put the foamboard between the furring strips. They also tend to use fi-foil (kraft faced foil) as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CX
Just how much trouble do you folks usually have with moisture coming through those walls?

So this is really interesting. They build homes differently here (AFAIK - I don't build homes for a living). Up north the premise is to seal your home. I think you meant to block moisture coming in at all cost. In fact, I believe up north they put moisture barrier through the entire house just like you recommend to do in showers. Did I get this right?
Down here the premise is different. The house has to "breath". You do not use moisture barrier through the entire house at all. The A/C works 24 x 7 x 365 (set to your comfortable room temperature) and it is constantly sucking moisture out of the air. I have a 5 Ton unit + 3.5 tons unit. They drain to the back of the house and its like a running faucet.

I invested in the foamboard not because of the moisture but for the noise reduction. I can't hear the neighbors though the shared townhome walls anymore so it was worth every penny.

So the above holds true for the house in general but I contemplated what to do with the shower insulation quite a bit. An entire foam board will act as a 2nd moisture barrier. Even putting it between the furring strips makes me nervous since there is always a horizontal furring strip at the top and bottom that locks everything in. The fi-foil they use down here also makes me nervous that it is not as effective moisture barrier in the first place as poly or felt (plus I hate it in general). In one of the other showers in the house I used unfaced insulation. I know you can use faced insulation and puncture the heck out of it to defeat its moisture blocking capabilities as well. All of this is moot anyway now, since there isn't whole lot of insulation you can do in 3/4" thick furring strips so I am probably going to skip doing any altogether.

jadnashua 07-30-2020 11:25 AM

The surface will be the first area to dry...so, without a pin type, I'm not sure how accurate your reading would be on the piece overall.

PT lumber doesn't necessarily repel water...it is designed to inhibit it from rotting if it does get wet. Plus, the sawdust and just hand contact with the stuff can be nasty. Any wood tends to curl, warp, and otherwise change shape when it dries. Fasteners may not be enough, and tile, being brittle, can't handle much of any movement at all. Either the bond breaks, or the tile, or both.

cx 07-30-2020 12:06 PM

Dan, I wasn't recommending the foam board as insulation of any kind, although you get some of that with it. I'm recommending one of the foam backerboards that is also your waterproofing and tile substrate for your shower walls.

I'm not quite understanding Jim's point about the moisture meters. It's my contention that a pinless meter is going to be much more useful in this application and more accurate as well. The pin meters measure the electrical resistance near the surface of the wood, which is not really want you want to know. The pinless meter is gonna be measuring a quarter-inch or more below the surface and will tell you more of what you're really looking for. Both types require some finesse in their application and interpretation, but a fella can get a feel for his particular meter over time and you'll want an adjustment chart for the type of wood you're measuring. It's especially handy to have a known dry piece of the same material for comparison.

I have no idea how accurate that tool you have might be.

My opinion; worth price charged.

arnav 07-30-2020 03:09 PM

So...
I suspect the lowes PT lumber I linked to is not KDAT. Wishful thinking on my part. I did some additional research today.
  • Lowes pressure treat their lumber with a product called ecolife. It is made by a company called Viance.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by / from viance website
    Ecolife is available at 84 Lumber, independent lumberyards across the country and at Lowe's under the Severe Weather brand.

    Ref: https://www.treatedwood.com/products/ecolife
  • So I called them up and asked if the PT lumber that they process for lowes is KDAT. They said that no and can't be since they don't have kilns! They said is it kiln dried before it gets to them so that their treatment can penetrate the wood.
  • Also, check out this comment a user left on the lowes website:

    Response to the Kiln Dried comment on this site

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by / from the lowes website
    Lowe's Pressure Treated Lumber is NOT advertised as Kiln Dried After Treatment" (KDAT) which is what is being inferring. All Lowe's Pressure Treated Lumber is advertised as KDHT19 (marked on the mill stamp on each piece of lumber) which indicates that the lumber was Kiln Dried / Heat Treated to 19% moisture or less before treating. Bottom line - All Lowe's Pressure Treated Lumber is Kiln Dried BEFORE treating, but NOT Kiln Dried after treatment. No False Advertising There. Not advertised as KDAT.

    Ref: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564784 (search for KDAT in the user reviews)

So that's that. If I do truly find KDAT lumber down here I would let you know since by now it seems like a news worthy event nothing short of spotting a unicorn. And if I don't, I ain't freaking out since PT is ultimately what the pros use down here.
Where is Brian AKA ceramictec when you need him? :)

Ready for it? CX you were right, KDAT lumber is rare (at least in big box stores)!

jadnashua 07-30-2020 03:27 PM

KDAT stuff costs more since it needs to be kiln dried twice. People that shop big box stores are more into convenience and price than maybe quality.

My thinking, maybe incorrect, on a pin type meter is that you can stick it into the wood some rather than making an assessment from just the top surface. But, if the pinless ones can 'read' below the surface, I've learned something.

cx 07-30-2020 03:45 PM

The pinless meters are relying upon electromagnetic sensing of the difference in density, I think, Jim. Part of the reason the results need to be adjusted for the wood species being tested. Where an outdoor piece of dry pine might register 10 or 11 percent in my climate, a similar sample of Ipe is likely to peg the meter on the same scale at 30 percent. Takes some adjustment of your thought process at times, too, and doing a lot of testing with your particular tool is most helpful in learning to interpret its readings.

My opinion; worth price charged.

arnav 07-30-2020 04:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Re:

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnav
I am wondering if I can avoid having to redo it. I know the flange has to sit on top of the tiles.
- Can I get away making a hole just big enough in the CBU to insert the toilet flange through it, tile, and then secure the flange again?
- Butt two sheets of CBU at the toilet flange?

Basically, do you have to cut off and remove the PVC toilet flange if it is in a good shape?

For other bathrooms I:
1. Cut the toilet flange out with a dremel so that I have a bare PVC pipe.
2. Screw the CBU down, with a hole in it that will allow the PVC pipe to fit through
3. tile
4. redo the plumbing and screw the toilet flange down on top of the tiles.

Whereas now, since the flange is in a good shape and fairly new, I am wondering if I can leave it be:

1. Unscrew the current flange from the tiles
2. Demo/remove the old tiles and CBU
3. Screw new CBU down but make a hole big enough in it so that the toilet flange can go through
4. Tile
5. Screw the toilet flange over the new tiles.

Only the tiles would hold the actual flange (since the hole in the CBU was made big enough for the flange to fit through when screwing the CBU down)

jadnashua 07-30-2020 04:16 PM

A pinless moisture meter can be fooled if the material contains any metallic material. A pin type probably could be as well as it's measuring resistance, and metal will affect that without correction. So, depending on what material they used to pressure treat it, it may not work right at all. Maybe the safer solution would be to weigh the stuff, if you had a reference and an accurate scale!

I read up a little on this, and depending on the model of pinless, it is using an electromagnetic field that will give you an assessment of what's in either 1/4" to the surface, or 3/4" to the surface of the wood you're inspecting. Make sure that the sensor is in perfect contact with the wood if you want it to give accurate results, and have either corrected the reading for the type of wood, or input it into a smarter one that has that capability.

cx 07-30-2020 04:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Your current flange is at exactly the correct height to allow it to be sitting on top of your tiles?

You mentioned earlier that you could split your CBU in that area to fit under your drain flange. Why is that not an option now?

The toilet drain flange is not supposed to be supporting anything but the wax ring use to seal it to the bottom of the toilet. Best to have if firmly mounted, but it's not really structural in nature. That said, it's still best to mount the flange firmly on top of the finished floor. Here's what a proper installation should look like:

Attachment 214614

Many people would leave your flange where it is on the subfloor (presumably?) and use flange extenders. I don't much favor that sort of installation, but it's known to work.

I also know of some plumbers who install the flanges directly on top of SOG floors and use nothing but a standard wax ring to seat the toilet on top of the tile floor. I've not heard of any of them leaking, but I'm not recommending that, either.

If you already know how to remove and replace the flange in this situation, why are you wanting not to do it in this particular installation?

My opinion; worth price charged.

arnav 07-30-2020 04:41 PM

yes, the current flange is the correct height and is sitting over the tiles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CX
You mentioned earlier that you could split your CBU in that area to fit under your drain flange. Why is that not an option now?

It is. I wanted to make sure it is not important to use a single contiguous CBU board in that area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CX
If you already know how to remove and replace the flange in this situation, why are you wanting not to do it in this particular installation?

Was just looking for one less thing to do i guess being that the pvc pipe and flange are fairly new. If it gets iffy, I will most certainly redo it.

Thx!

jadnashua 07-30-2020 04:50 PM

Having a flange lower than by design (happens a lot!) generally works, but the thicker the wax required to make the seal, the more prone it is to a blowout should you ever need to plunge the toilet.

Often, the flange gets installed on the subflooring because the builder doesn't want to pay to have the plumber come back later, and it can mess up the plumbing inspection if it's not installed when he arrives. There are millions of toilets installed this way. It's not ideal, but generally works.

It's code in many places to use some sealant around the base of the toilet (leaving the back open). This does two things:
- helps to hold the toilet in place (tile provides little friction between the porcelain tile and the porcelain toilet). Don't use a silicone one, or you will have big trouble getting the toilet up, if needed, later!
- prevents dribbles or whatever from misses, or mopping to get underneath the toilet where it's nearly impossible to clean it up, eventually, creating some smells.

FWIW, try NOT to use an all-plastic flange. Choose one with a SS (not painted steel) ring, as it won't rust, and will end up stronger. A flange is designed to be installed tight to the FINISHED floor, and anchored into it.

If the pipe or toilet moves relative to the wax seal, since the wax won't rebound, a rocking toilet, or a moved one, or a flexible pipe/flange can cause a gap. If nothing else, it can let sewer gasses escape, but in a clog situation, other stuff, too.

arnav 07-30-2020 04:56 PM

Yep, I always install over the tiles, anchor to the subfloor, and always use an SS ring one.

I haven't been using wax rings at all. I have been having great success with the wax-less ones.

ss3964spd 07-31-2020 06:26 AM

Just my opinion, Dan, but given what looks to be easy access to the terlet drain I'd cut it out. I think you'd spend as much time working around and under it as you would removing/replacing. The floor will be more solid in that critical area and the parts are darn cheap.

arnav 07-31-2020 11:47 AM

Fair enough. Thanks for the advice. will do. I guess that pipe still has room in it for a few more couplings before it has to be cut way way back...

arnav 08-03-2020 10:50 PM

I was literally about to place an order for the Raimondi system based on what I've read here when I noticed their Vite system. I originally shied away from any twisting based system not to scratch the marble but then noticed that Raimondi have protective washers for their caps.
I know this is a subjective, and probably discussed to death topic, so here is my specific question:
With the Raimondi Vite, for a 12" x 12", 3/8" thick crema landfill, would you
  1. Place a single (+) strap in between these 4 tiles
  2. Or, one flat (-) strap on each side?
  3. Or, two flat (-) straps on each side?
  4. Forget all that, stick with wedges?
I have only seen one other thread here about the Vite from 2 years ago so figured I'll ask. If you think the wedges based system is better for these tiles, I'll go with that.

Thx!

ss3964spd 08-04-2020 07:32 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I used the Spin Doctor system for my master bath project, Dan, including the protective disks. Worked really well I thought, though I have used nothing else to compare that system to. I also used way more of the spacers than I probably needed to, and didn't care at all that I did. Also did not use any of the "combination" spacers - the ones that supposedly will level the corners of 4 adjacent tiles, as having mortar under the corners, instead of a combination of plastic and mortar, just gave me the warm and fuzzies, though I can't confirm those W&F's were rooted in reality.

The spinny caps are the big up front cost of the spinny cap systems. The disks ain't that much, nor are the spacers.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC