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rocat1997 12-02-2011 12:52 PM

Roger's Shower Project
Hi everyone,

I am in the same position as Sal on the Hydroban. No one local has it even Lowes. They only have Aquadefense. Could Aquadefense be used in place of Hydroban and get the same reliable results?

cx 12-02-2011 01:19 PM

Welcome, Roger. :)

Generally get only confusion when you ask similar questions on someone else's project thread. Best to have you own.

There are many, many liquid-applied direct bonded waterproofing membranes on the market. All will work generally according to manufacturer's claims if installed per manufacturer's instructions. Exactly per manufacturer's written instructions.

My opinion; worth price charged.

rocat1997 12-02-2011 03:03 PM

Awesome.. My shower is a typical southern style with 6 inch recessed floor. No water pan was used. They used drywall on the walls. Tiled directly to the drywall. Their was extensive water damage to the studs. I want to build the floor back up with deck mud and use a liquid membrane on cbu. Studs are repaired now. Here in fort worth their is few options on suppliers. Lowes has aquadefense. No fabrics of any kind for the corners. Home depot is worse. Their people say we sell to build showers the regular way. We don't have mold here. I had to ask then what is that black stuff in the wall I removed? I would like to ask for guidance in the waterproofing. Money will be an issue so a kerdi shower is out. But, I would like to build it the best cost effective way I can. I am leaning on the aquadefense. I have pretty much read the manufacturers instructions. Its the fabric in the corners. Mapei fabric is over 100 dollars a roll and I don't need near that much. Are their other choices that can be used? Thanks for the help,


HooKooDoo Ku 12-02-2011 04:18 PM

You are not required to use mapei fabric in the corners. It is an OPTIONAL reinforcement. The only thing you HAVE to do is prep the surface by using alki-resistant tape and thinset to fill the basic gaps you should have at the joints and corners. At Lowe's, you should find the alki-resistant tape (joint tape suitable for use in concrete) in the same area you find the drywall joint tape. You would think they would stock the cement tape with the thin-set or CBU, but at the Lowe's around here, it's with the drywall.

Aquadefense Install Instructions

rocat1997 12-03-2011 08:48 AM

Question for everyone. If I skip the fabric and just mesh tape and thinset the seams, what is the chance of failure? Also, I notice laticrete make a roll of fabric that is for change of planes. It is way cheaper than mapei's version. Could that be used with aquadefense? And is that a more waterproof option?

rocat1997 12-03-2011 08:52 AM

Also, one more question. I plan on doing a divot drain. The procedure calls for fabric around the drain flange. What are some options here? I hate to buy a whole roll of fabric for a small patch for the drain. At that rate I might as well by a kerdi drain. What would be the outcome if you didn't use fabric. This is on a concrete slab.

Houston Remodeler 12-03-2011 08:56 AM


Only a few of the Pro's here are well versed in that method.

Patience grasshoppah.

rocat1997 12-03-2011 09:51 AM

No problem. I have time. I chose that method as I felt it would work best with my situation. I am open for suggestions though. I have not even ruled out using a pan liner yet if that is best.

rocat1997 12-04-2011 04:50 PM

Hi guys,

I have a question. When they poured the foundation, they slightly sloped the concrete where the curb sits downward toward the recessed shower pan. I am guessing the logic here is if the curb leaked it would go downhill. :bang: My question is what kind of curb would you build back being it is sloped downhill? My thoughts are to do a mud curb. Thanks for the help.

cx 12-04-2011 05:30 PM


Originally Posted by Roger
My shower is a typical southern style with 6 inch recessed floor. No water pan was used.

Only place I know of that being "typical" is in Florida, Roger. Ft. Worth had always required pan liners far as I know.

I think you need to post some photos of what you've got.

Not sure why a fella'd need nor want a curb on a dropped shower, but whatever you build there needs to slope to the drain, anyway.

rocat1997 12-04-2011 06:11 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Hi cx,

I guess they felt they needed to do a florida style on both of my showers. It is definitely a low down step. Have to step over a 6 inch curb and then the floor is 6 inches below slab main level. They had about 3 inches of morter/sand and brick in the floor as a base. No water pan is in either of the showers. I am posting a picture. Shower is gutted and curb is removed. Still have some framing left to replace. The front edge going into the shower is slanted down.

cx 12-04-2011 06:27 PM

First thing you'll need to do is cut out sufficient concrete to change that drain to a proper clamping drain, or, if you elect to do a bonded waterproof membrane shower, a direct bonding drain.

Then, before you install a drain, you wanna decide if you want a curb at all. When given the choice, my customers would invariably elect to keep the step-down profile. That's a little tricky to do with a conventional mud/liner/mud pan, but with direct bonding membranes it's very simple to do.

Pick your poison and our good folks will help you get there from here. :)

rocat1997 12-04-2011 07:47 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Hi cx,

Thanks for the help you have given. Hard to see from the pic but their is enough pipe sticking up to put the clamping style drain. Here is my problem. On the right in the picture, the framing header plate and wall studs was framed over the opening by 3/4-1 inch almost. Only on the right side by the pipe work. The other 2 sides are flush with the opening. I'm including a pic below of the board replaced. I wish I could just move the wall, but that is impossible. The tub is on the back side. If you were to leave it lower, (and I love the idea of that), how do you install the cbu below the grade? They installed drywall and packed mud into the gap between it and and slab. Thanks again. Once i get through this rough in stuff, I will be in the clear! Oh, and I would much prefer the direct bonding membranes.

cx 12-04-2011 09:35 PM

Roger, I'd recommend you fill the area below your sole plate (that's not a header) with fat mud to flush it out. See the Shower Construction section of our whirl-famous Liberry for Fat Mud and Deck Mud info.

Then you would install your CBU Down over it like it wasn't there.

If you elect to do a direct bonded waterproofing pan, you'd then lock the bottom of the CBU against your mud wall with the deck mud you use to make your sloped floor.

If you elect to do a traditional shower pan, you'd install your CBU after the pan liner and lock it in with the final deck mud.

My opinion; worth price charged.

rocat1997 12-04-2011 10:36 PM

Thanks cx for the help. This has been wonderful and is taking me in a new direction. Sorry for the missed wording on the sole plate. I get confused on them. Two more questions for you. Is their a height requirement on the drain to pass code? And how to you handle the shower door when their is no curb? Do you mount its frame to the floor or use a frameless? Thanks again!

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