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TileArt1 06-16-2009 09:58 PM

Wow. The statement in my first post was not asking for you or anyone else to pay for my problem! The money set aside was set aside for her (seven year old) vehicle. I was also paying ridiculous insurance premiums at the same time. Your train of thought seems to be that I want someone else to pick up the slack because I need a new vehicle. And if I can get you to do that I can run out and buy a new car. Well if that's where you think I'm coming from 1. you don't know me and 2. I can see why you're worried.
No offense, but statements like
Quote:

There are other alternatives other than making other people pay some of your health bills.
are an absolute insult to me. They smack of a mindset that now that something has happened I think everyone else should take care of it. I understand why conservatives are concerned about that - I am too.

Yes, Joe did give me the answer. You know, if I happened to be in the position where her condition was not yet diagnosed. Wait - I was in that position and did have reasonable premiums, and low prescriptions. You know, until we needed them. Even if me or my wife went to work at a public school and attempted to get on their insurance it wouldn't be accepted. Little thing they like to call "pre-existing condition". Convenient, huh?

Not asking for anybody to pay for my problems Dean. Never have. Just wanted what I was promised when I was the one with the healthy family and paid seven years straight apparently for nothing. Raise my premiums, that's fine, no problem. I'll pay for mine. What happens now that we've been dropped for this and now I blow out a knee? There goes my house.

Your other solutions as well are not viable due to the pre-existing condition clause. Don't give a #%*# about paying for the medication if it makes her feel better. But what happens if she gets a totally unrelated condition but she isn't insured because of this? You seem to be assuming quite a bit and that is probably part of the overall problem - assumptions.

But you aren't in my shoes, are you? And the assumption seems to be that you never will be. I will refer you to post #2 for a reply to that statement.

Just asking for a little responsibility from the companies just like you are asking of me. I've taken care of my responsibilities, always have. Not asking for a handout. Just want the same amount of fairness from the company that they expect from me.

While I don't disagree that there are a lot of people that would do this simply to have someone else pay for their problem don't presume that I'm one of them. Thanks.

sandbagger 06-16-2009 10:11 PM

Once again I'll strongly urge y'all to read The Forgotten Man. You'll learn the details about FDR's relentless attacks on the "wealthy." You'll read it and think, "I think I've seen this movie." You'll learn how FDR's belief in government-owned utilities brought us the Tennessee Valley Authority, and how the TVA's real mission was to put Wendell Wilkie's Commonwealth and Southern (a publicly traded company) out of business.

Obama's strategy on healthcare is clearly patterned after FDR's campaign for taking over utilities. The TVA's stated mission was to bring "affordable" electricity to the rural areas. In the beginning it worked with Wilkie's C&S. Sort of. TVA began encroaching on C&S areas. They brought in money for lots of non-TVA projects; money C&S could not match.

And "affordable" was defined as less than anything C&S charged. With no shareholders (if you don't count taxpayers) the TVA could set any rate it wanted. It didn't matter if the actual cost was higher. It took eight years, but in the end Wilkie was forced to sell out to TVA. The shareholders of C&S? They took it in the shorts, of course. But since FDR had long ago defined people who owned stock as "wealthy," nobody cared. That was the populist way to think.

Now take FDR's utility strategy and change it to "healthcare." The similarity in strategy is pretty obvious, and more than a little frightening. Like Commonwealth & Southern, the private healthcare sector will be run out of business by the government "option."

Read the book if you dare. I assure you it will keep your attention. And you will understand Obama's grand plan. :eek:

sandbagger 06-16-2009 10:20 PM

Quote:

Sorry to harp on auto insurance but it is the closest thing to compare.
Joe, funny you should use the auto insurance analogy for health care. That is precisely the model that Safeway has very successfully used to provide healthcare for its employees. The key to note is that it works. So don't expect to hear their program get any airtime on the Obama News Networks.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124476804026308603.html

Mark Krachenspiner 06-16-2009 10:28 PM

OK Art,

I told the wife Liberty and Tyranny was the book i wanted for father's day. I'm going to change it to The Forgotten Man, seems more appropriate anyhow.

good day.

ob1kanobee 06-17-2009 12:15 AM

TO QUOTE "There are other alternatives other than making other people pay some of your health bills."

When you are in a "group policy" you are paying for other peoples health bills or they could be paying for yours.

This is pretty much the only alternative and the insurance industry knows it. In order for insurance to be successful you have to have a group or the risk becomes too great for the insurance company.

No insurance company is going to come out with a plan to insure 50 million Americans by drastically reducing their spread (cost to final price).

On top of it all, the average American and even somewhat slightly above average American's income is not keeping pace with the rising costs of healthcare (and other things for that matter) which includes people with a part time job in addition to a full time job.

sandbagger 06-17-2009 01:34 AM

I hear Levin's book is a great read, but I haven't gotten there yet. You'll understand another thing before you finish Forgotten Man. And that is just how fortunate we are today to have the "alternate media" that did not exist under FDR.

sandbagger 06-17-2009 01:35 AM

Ben - maybe it's just too late to think, but what's your point? :scratch:

jgleason 06-17-2009 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TileArt1
Just wanted what I was promised when I was the one with the healthy family and paid seven years straight apparently for nothing. Raise my premiums, that's fine, no problem. I'll pay for mine. What happens now that we've been dropped for this and now I blow out a knee? There goes my house.

Roger - Have you spoken with an attorney regarding your contract with the insurance company? Lots of fine print in insurance contracts but there may be something that can be done.

I do worry about how to handle the preexisting conditions aspect, particularly when those conditions are not related to lifestyle. To me there is a big difference in someone making unhealthy choices (bad diet, smoker, heavy drinker, etc.) that raises their health risk versus someone unlucky enough getting cancer.

If you have an unhealthy lifestyle, you should pay more for insurance. at some point you may not be able to find insurance at any price. If I am a bad driver, constantly getting tickets and having accidents guess what happens to my insurance premiums?

tying health insurance to the employer was one of the more boneheaded things that has been in this country.

tilerite 06-17-2009 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean
Rick suggested talking to the doctor about Humira (medication). One medication every two weeks has got to be cheaper (if it will work).

$3000 per month, Dean. Thank God its covered by her Medicare.
Getting back to this argument; so far, I seem to be the only person here who gets it. PREVENT THE ILLNESS BEFORE IT HAPPENS!!!
Ok, you may all return to your morning biscuits and gravy.

tilerite 06-17-2009 06:08 AM

Quote:

I do worry about how to handle the preexisting conditions aspect, particularly when those conditions are not related to lifestyle. To me there is a big difference in someone making unhealthy choices (bad diet, smoker, heavy drinker, etc.) that raises there health risk versus someone unlucky enough getting cancer.

If you have an unhealthy lifestyle, you should pay more for insurance. at some point you may not be able to find insurance at any price. If I am a bad driver, constantly getting tickets and having accidents guess what happens to my insurance premiums?
I stand corrected. Joe gets it. :goodpost:

jgleason 06-17-2009 06:19 AM

Art linked this article - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124476804026308603.html

Everyone should read it. Makes me want to go work for Safeway.

HS345 06-17-2009 07:51 AM

Will the members of Congress be covered under the same health care bill as the rest of us? If not, why not? :suspect:

ob1kanobee 06-17-2009 08:02 AM

Art, I was afraid nobody would ask.

My point is to establish a profitable health care company by the government but mainly ran by the private sector. The people within the group (insureds) would receive dividends for participationg in the group. It would function with a much smaller profit than your traditional insurance provider.

Doctors, nurses, employees of the plan would also all be part of the group and owners as well.

I wrote a more detailed plan down earlier when I wrote the first post but I figured it was too long. This one isn't detailed enough and it isn't going to happen anyway so no more writing for me........................

Health care is the only business I could ever see the government actively competing in. Too many people's health at risk and just getting worse.

HS345 06-17-2009 08:49 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has released a preliminary report of a portion of the proposed health care plan, mind you that the CBO only analyzed the portion available to them, even with that the cost is expected to be one trillion dollars. :drevil:That's trillion, with a great big T.

The CBO also estimates that for our one trillion dollars we would only reduce the number of uninsured Americans by 16 million over a ten year period. You do the math. :cry:

Also, remember that part B.O. spoke of about getting to keep the health insurance you have today? Not true, according to the CBO report. CBO projects that 15 million people would get pushed out of their job based plans and into the so called “gateways” run by the states. That number will go much higher when the bill includes the promised “government option.”

There is some good news though, the CBO expects the gummint will collect about 2 billion dollars over ten years, in penalties against those who don't purchase government approved health insurance. That will certainly go a long way toward helping to defray the trillion dollar price tag. :rolleyes:

sandbagger 06-17-2009 10:45 AM

Quote:

Health care is the only business I could ever see the government actively competing in.
Sorry, Ben, that's just naive. The government does not compete in anything. The government dictates.

"Competition" is what happens between businesses. In order to survive every business must constantly examine its business model and how it operates. The government doesn't have a business model. It doesn't care if it's not efficient. The government doesn't have to worry about that line of credit with the bank. The gov't doesn't have to worry about profit and loss. And it certainly doesn't have to worry about those silly, recalcitrant shareholders.

Big Governmnt IS the problem. Now we want Big Government to come to the rescue?? :bang: :bang:


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