Method of Tiling Wall and Waterproofing? [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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cb9209
08-24-2010, 03:45 PM
Ok, I'm new to the forum and certainly new to tiling so I have what I hope to be a simple question.

I am redoing my main bathroom and have installed the tub and hardibacker on the walls within the tub/shower area. However, the bathroom is very small and the tub is 1/2" shy of an outside corner. All that is visible is the end of a piece of drywall that is on the wall that the apron is in line with.. I do not see any chance of tiling this so how do I finish the edge? Will a pvc piece of trim/moulding suffice providing it is caulked/silicone properly?

Open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance

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Davestone
08-24-2010, 04:02 PM
You could do that Chad,i have trimmed pieces of bullnose on a wetsaw pretty tiny but it ain't easy.

matman
08-24-2010, 04:22 PM
Hi Chad one option that will help make that skinny cut a bit wider is to run your cap pieces beyond the end of the tub wall by the thickness of a tile. You then turn the corner and run the cap pieces on the bath wall with the finished edge away from the tub wall edge, finishing the install on the bath wall.

If you're tiling to the ceiling you'll have a straight row of cap, ceiling to floor on the bath wall. If you're only tiling 5 ft. above the tub you're gonna need an outside corner at the 5 ft level

Doing that will enlarge the skinny to about 3/4 of an in. , strong with a little extra mud on the wall caps. Walls have to be fairly plumb for it to look good and I don't know if you can do that without seeing it.

cb9209
08-25-2010, 03:44 AM
Two questions.

1. I have hardibacker as my wall base. Do I need to apply red gaurd, especially if one wall is an exterior wall? I backer is installed over faced insulation. The other two walls are non insulated interior walls.

2. When tiling on the vertical, what is the best method to the madness? Do I start low, high or in the middle? I've seen one method by tacking up a 2x4 ledger to support the first row and up. Then once that cures you finish off the bottom section. Do I tape each row in place in lieu of that? :shrug:

Scottish Tile and Stone
08-25-2010, 04:25 AM
Chad, is this a full shower or tub surround.?
You will need spacers for the walls.. I like to either start off the floor or use a ledger board 1 row up and start there. Alot depends on tile size and the layout

cb9209
08-25-2010, 04:49 AM
It's a tub/shower. I plan on using 6" tiles.

I also have another question. What is the best product for waterproofing grout? After dealing with a mold issue I don't want to take any chances. Do I use laticrete grout? An epoxy grout sealer? Heck, I don't even know the differences especially after reading so many different things. So far this has seem to be the most knowledge filled website. :tup2:

I was planning on tiling starting saturday so if I had to redgaurd the walls I guess I would have to do that Friday? Is that enough cure time? To be honest, I'm leary on redgaurd. I've read stories of it peeling right now (ie, not bonding with hardibacker). I am soooo paranoid now about getting water behind the tile. :(

bbcamp
08-25-2010, 05:00 AM
Chad, you need only one layer of waterproofing, and only one vapor barrier. (I'm going to intentially mis-use these terms, but it's for a good purpose, so bear with me.) Your insulation has a vapor barrier in the kraft paper facing. That will stop water vapor that penetrates your walls from contacting a colder surface near the exterior of the house and condensing. This vapor will gladly move back into your house when the conditions are right. Adding a moisture barrier to the inside face of your backerboard will not entirely prevent water vapor from reaching the vapor barrier, but may restrict the vapor from returning to the interior. So, the vapor gets trapped inside the walls. Bad thing, that.

What to do? Have only one vapor retarder in the system. (Kraft paper is really a vapor retarder, as is Redgard, and any other membrane that has a Perm rating higher than 1.) Because you still need a moisture barrier, and kraft paper can't be it, you need to defeat the kraft paper with a series of slits to allow vapor to pass through easily. The, install the backerboard and coat it with 2 coats of Redgard. This meets all the requirements of having one moisture barrier and one vapor retarder in your wall system.

For further reading, do a site search for "Moisture Sandwich." Bring a lunch.:D

Scottish Tile and Stone
08-25-2010, 05:04 AM
You really cant waterproof grout.
Seeing this is a tub, I would start my first row right off the tub MAKING sure the tub is level all the way around..

bbcamp
08-25-2010, 05:05 AM
If you want a waterproof grout, an epoxy grout is the way to go. Laticrete's Spectralok is a good, easy to use version that Lowes carries. Check your quantities and verify they have enough of your color in the same dye lot in stock. If not, have them order it for you, but demand the same dye lot.

Epoxy grout never needs sealing. Good, eh?

Best way to deal with mold is to deny the little buggers a source of water. Use a vent fan with a timer to run for 20 minutes after the shower. Make the fan large enough to exchange the air in the bathroom at least 8 times per hour. Dry the shower with a squeegee or towel after the last shower of the day. Dry bathrooms do not mold.

Scottish Tile and Stone
08-25-2010, 05:06 AM
I personally am not a fan of Redguard. If you have a lowes close, see if they carry Laticrete and get a small tub of water tight.. Its about $50.

Scottish Tile and Stone
08-25-2010, 05:09 AM
Didnt think spectralock was waterproof? Stainproof yes

cb9209
08-25-2010, 05:20 AM
Thanks!

I've actually already cut the slits in the kraft facing of the insulation so I'm good there. It's really just how I handle the tiling side of the hardibacker. I've extended the hardi down slightly past the tiling flange of the tub so that water will not land behind the tub between the walls.

I guess like you say, if water can't get past the hardi/moisture barrier then I wouldn't need waterproof grout. I think if I went with the laticrete water proofing and also epoxy grout I could rest easy.

Is epoxy grout tough to deal with? I've done one other tile job and used a pre-mixed sand type grout which was EASY to use and more importantly, to clean. Having used an epoxy product before on repairing plastic, it's not very friendly to me. :yeah:

bbcamp
08-25-2010, 05:26 AM
Scotty, you are correct, Spectralok is not a substitute for a moisture barrier. I did not mean to imply that it was. Sorry for any confusion.

I found Spectralok fairly easy to work with. You do have to pay attention to the cleaning instructions, but they are not that hard. Like all grouts, you do not want to get too far ahead of yourself. I used mini-units and found that they were the right size for me to spread and clean up.

cb9209
08-25-2010, 05:52 AM
forgive my ignorance but what is a mini-unit? I'm assuming the amount of grout.

Scottish Tile and Stone
08-25-2010, 06:00 AM
mini units are smaller packs of spectralock.. Those are the ones sold at lowes. The pro units are bigger ones used for bigger jobs

Serge
08-25-2010, 12:57 PM
I've used redguard for 3 installations now (shower, tub surround, and another large shower). No problems after ~3 - 4 years. It dries fairly fast with a fan or heater.
I find epoxy grout difficult to work with, especially on walls. Floors are fine.
For my latest project I used a urethane based grout which has all the benefits of epoxy but is MUCH easier to apply.
Serge.

cb9209
08-28-2010, 06:59 PM
I know I am filled with Rookie questions but here is another...

I'm tiling the shower with 6" tiles. I'm not exactly sure the best way to do a corner. My gut was telling me to put one tile up to the wall perpendicular to the tile i am placing. Then on the untiled wall, I would butt the tile up to the one placed leaving a grout/caulk gap.

Is this a good method? Or should I put both sides off the corner leaving a gap and grout the line.

Jim Farrell Tiler
08-28-2010, 07:12 PM
you want to check if the walls are plumb if one side is off do that side first and cover the cut edge with the factory edge of the other tile, plumb walls and level floors are like rocking horse poos

cb9209
08-28-2010, 07:21 PM
they are plumb, just not square.

So should I still butt the factor edge to the cut edge on the opposite wall? Is that the standard method?

cx
08-28-2010, 08:10 PM
Chad, it's really helpful if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. We can give it a more generic title if you like. :)

We can bring the Hardibacker floor thread in here, too, if it's all part of the same bathroom project.

You're tiles won't know the walls are not perpendicular. Put your first tile near the inside corner. Put the tile on the adjacent wall one grout joint away from the first tile, or an eighth of an inch, whichever is larger.

You can also do it like your second suggestion if that makes your layout work better.

You never butt any tile against anything else, including another tile. Always leave a gap of some sort.

My opinion; worth price charged.

cb9209
08-29-2010, 04:32 AM
Thanks Cx. Sorry about that, just another rookie move ;)

A more generic title might be a good idea.

As for the tile, I was planning on leaving a gap the width of a spacer between the hardi and tile, and between tile and tile. Thanks for the info!! 6" tiles takes a loooong time. lol

Houston Remodeler
08-29-2010, 06:40 AM
like this

cb9209
09-01-2010, 06:35 PM
well, the shower is done...kind of.

I was cleaning off some excess thinset from some tiles and happened to notice that the top row of one sheet of glass tile didn't set properly. It was sagging from the wall. The rest of them on the same sheet are in there solid. It's about 48 hours after I installed that particular piece so my guess is I'm going to have to remove it. i should just be able to cut the mess and disconnect from the rest of the sheet and replace that one section.

For now I have taped the pieces in place to see what happens but looking on advice on cleaning the area I so I can reapply new pieces. Should I take the entire sheet down or will cutting that one section be ok? I think I just missed pushing those particular ones in. Every other tile feels solid. Other than that, I'm very pleased with my first shower tile job. 2nd tile job ever. Took me 4 days to finish. lol :tup1:

I have not grouted yet

Houston Remodeler
09-01-2010, 06:37 PM
Carefully cut out the offending bits and replace with new. You'll be grinding down the thinset too.

cb9209
09-01-2010, 07:23 PM
what is the best tool to grind it with (aside from the obvious...grinder). The strip is approx 1" wide...they are small rectangular interlocking glass pieces

cb9209
09-03-2010, 06:02 AM
Just figured I would update. I removed the small strip. Cleaned and scraped it back to the hardibacker. Applied thinset and reset the strip. It took immediately. I remember I was having some issues with that in the beginning so I'm actually not surprised. No concerns with this one not bonding! :tup1:

I will post some pics of the shower. I'll be doing the floor today (day off from work. wooo hooo). Although not a professional job. I'm very pleased for my first shower job and only 2nd tile job.

A huge thanks to everyone here. Guidance and advice has been TOP NOTCH.