LATICRETE in custom shower [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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lsag02
12-02-2009, 07:50 AM
It was 8 years when I built my last custom shower. I used then PVC liner that was rather awkward to fold and work with. Very soon I will be building another shower. I started researching and found there is now LATICRETE liquid rubber membrane that I assume much easier to apply and also much more leak proof. Any advice on using one?

Also since you tile over this liquid membrane I assume you don't need to use cementicious backer board inside the shower if you are going to apply liquid membrane over entire shower. I assume I can use plywood or OSB for the shower and apply this liquid membrane over it.

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Shaughnn
12-02-2009, 08:31 AM
Hello Isag,
I use Laticrete's Hydroban often. Though you don't have to use fabric to reinforce the membrane, I choose to use a square panel at the drain and a wide strip to wrap up the walls to reinforce the corners. Make certain to install at least 10" of blocking at the base of your walls to support whatever waterproofing you choose.
Also, you should still use cement board to construct the walls. You can either install 6mil plastic sheeting behind the CBU or apply liquid membrane over the top of the CBU. If you plan to include recessed niches or benches, I recommend that you go with the liquid membrane.
Best of luck,
Shaughnn

cx
12-02-2009, 08:37 AM
Welcome, Isag. :)

Sounds like you planned a shower with the entire interior, including the pan, waterproofed with a surface-applied waterproofing membrane.

But sounds like Shaughnn is building a traditional shower pan but using the liquid-applied membrane for the pan liner.

We all fixin' to build the same shower here? :)

lsag02
12-02-2009, 12:06 PM
Actually, I will soon be building two showers. One is regular custom shower with custom shower pan and another site built steam shower. For custom shower only pan needs to be waterproof and for steam shower entire shower needs to be waterproof. I never built steam shower before but I built custom shower pan. I did it classic way with PVC liner over pre-sloped mortar then another layer of mortar. works perfectly but it was rather painful to glue two sheets of liner together (the PVC liner was too narrow for the shower), then folding corners, using dam corners, etc. since I will be building steam shower and need to waterproof entire shower including ceiling I started researching if anything easier then PVC liner is available now. And came across LATICRETE liquid membrane. I wonder if it can be used for both steam shower and custom shower pan in place of PVC liner. I do not understand why I need to use backer board since liquid membrane will be applied over it and it can be applied over plywood as well, I guess. moreover, it is hard to butt backer boards together without any gap and I read that LATICRETE liquid membrane cannot be used on gaps more then 1/16".

cx
12-02-2009, 12:18 PM
Regular shower must be constructed of water impervious materials and be either waterproofed on the interior surface or have a continuous moisture barrier behind the wallboard that directs water to drain.

The only shower construction that can be done with sheetrock is one using the Kerdi Shower system on accounta the manufacturer has demonstrated to the code compliance people that it works.

Other membranes might also work, but not such variance has been sought by those manufacturers, apparently.

Traditional pan, CBU or mud walls, poly or felt behind, or surface-applied waterproofing membrane inside (but not both) is fine.

Fully surface waterproofed interior, pan and all, per individual manufacturer's installation instructions, also fine.

Steam showers are different animals.

You must have a vapor barrier over or behind the entire structure, including the sloped ceiling. Some surface-applied membranes are vapor-proof and indicated for this application, some are not.

Waterproof is not enough, gotta be a vapor barrier (perm less than 1.0) also.

Several other requirements for the steam shower that are different, too.

How 'bout we do the regular shower on this thread and you start another when you get to the steam shower? :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

hbrothberg
12-02-2009, 12:56 PM
Isag:

Regarding your posting and your comment:

"LATICRETE liquid membrane. I wonder if it can be used for both steam shower and custom shower pan in place of PVC liner. I do not understand why I need to use backer board since liquid membrane will be applied over it and it can be applied over plywood as well, I guess. moreover, it is hard to butt backer boards together without any gap and I read that LATICRETE liquid membrane cannot be used on gaps more then 1/16".

Isag, you'll find a good amount of good info posted by a range of skilled & knowledgeable people in response to your posting ...

My comments:

Yes, Laticrete HydroBan liquid applied membrane can be used for both steam showers and custom shower pans in place of a PVC liner. We're field and jobsite proven and have "the approvals"

You ask why do you really WANT to use cement backer board ...? Because water gets to the "board structure" of the shower not only from the front (that's why you use membrane on the front) but from the back such as from "sweating pipes"

So, use a cement board for your shower walls and ceiling ...!

Clarification:

LATICRETE HydroBan liquid membrane CAN be used on gaps more then 1/16"

For gaps more than 1/8" fill the gaps with some thinset mortar!

If you are interested in "The Technical Aspects" of Showers & Steam Showers then take a look at our Technical Design Manual on this subject. This is NOT "light reading," this is serious, indepth technical information on the subject.

Tiled Steam Room and Steam Shower Technical Design Manual

The goal of this manual is to provide the necessary information to help ensure a proper and long-lasting tile installation in a steam room or steam shower environment.

http://www.laticrete.com/contractors/technical_design_manuals.aspx

Henry

lsag02
12-02-2009, 01:31 PM
OK. Thank you all for the info. Let's take steam shower questions off this thread. I will create another thread specifically for steam shower questions.

I understand now that even with LATICRETE I have to use cement boards. so in plain language what's the correct way to use LATICRETE liquid membrane to construct regular show pan?

- Put 6 mil. poly over studs.
- Screw 1/2" Durock over poly. I assume since LATICRETE liquid membrane is used to construct show pan I can screw Durock at the very bottom which I cannot do if using CPE show pan.
- build mortar preslope.
- apply LATICRETE liquid membrane over preslope, show dam and 12" on all internal shower walls. Basically over the same surface where CPE membrane would be.
- tile over solidified membrane.

Is this correct?

how do I install screwed shower drain? when CPE is used, the CPE liner is put between lower and upper drain parts.

scuttlebuttrp
12-02-2009, 10:25 PM
To connect to a three piece clamping drain, you need to do the divot method. Or another popular way is to use the Kerdi drain.

Our very own Guezeman waterproofing a divot drain. (he's using a Mapei product in the video but Hydroban would be done the same way)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnZWBJHxeQQ

post 44 has a nice pic of a divot drain
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72403&page=3

gueuzeman
12-04-2009, 10:47 PM
Hi- been out of town with no computer, but like all the others have already posted, the divot method will reduce your mud applications to one, removing the preslope step. Any other questions, feel free toi ask.

Thanks for the links, scuttle!

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