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Kendal
09-05-2008, 04:26 PM
Okay,
i'm looking for some thoughts on using a liquid membrane as a shower pan. Will some of the kind folks out there with experience in this area chime in? Specifically, Laticrete Waterproofer, or Redguard, or Mer-crete. How are they for this purpose, etc. If you have done this, what is your process, etc. Cost versus return, etc.
Thanks all.
Kendal

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Mike2
09-05-2008, 05:05 PM
Kendal, while you are waiting for a personal response, we have 100's of threads on this subject. Do a Search on "Hydroban". It's just one of the liquid membrane products used for shower pans and Laticrete's latest entry into that market.

Here is one of the Hydroban threads returned from that search, and a pretty good one to I might add. . http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46957

merkretetyler
09-06-2008, 07:47 AM
Kendal,

What can I help you with regarding these installations. They perform, conform to any shape and really make applications on walls much easier. I can tell you we sell millions of gallons of waterproofing with few problems.

Let me know, if I can answer specific questions.

Good tiling.

Kendal
09-06-2008, 10:33 AM
Jim,
thanks for the response. I am specifically interested in using it as a shower pan. What would be the correct process for applying it, and how is the drain dealt with?
Thank you in advance
Kendal

Davestone
09-06-2008, 03:52 PM
Never used it myself but here's their site..http://merkrete.com/merkrete/kr-home.htm

matman
09-06-2008, 04:17 PM
I did a liquid membrane pan and the problem with the liquid, if it is a problem, is the drying times. You have to wait a couple of days at least for your drypack to cure. You give it a coat of membrane and you wait for that to dry. Coat it again and you wait to apply thinset. If you have other work to perform on the jobsite then it's just fine time wise. If you don't you may get bogged down some.

I use Lat's Hydroban and I love it for the walls, niches, curbs, nice stuff. For a pan I need to work with it more to see if it could be a little quicker. :)

Kendal
09-06-2008, 10:06 PM
exactly what i'm looking for guys...thanks. just wanted to see some folks weigh in and btw Mike, i wanted to thank you for the thread you provided. Very interesting. anyone else with thoughts?
thanks!

duneslider
09-06-2008, 11:07 PM
I agree with Mat, the biggest down fall for me is the waiting time. Especially, If I have to flood test it. Most want a couple days before flood testing. With a traditional liner, I can get my inspection over with much sooner than with any other method.

I do think that there are times and places for most any method. Odd shaped showers are the liquid membranes niche. For a standard square shower the traditional liner is hard to beat.

I personally still question the drain connection with liquid waterproofers, this is probably just my lack of experience with them and having not seen them stand the test of time. I am not saying it doesn't work, or I don't think it will work, I just don't have enough experience using them to full trust its all good.

Crestone Tile
09-06-2008, 11:29 PM
I have been using Mapei HPG lately, and I'm wondering if I'll ever go back to a PVC or CPE pan ever again ... seriously. The only negative to me is the wait for flood testing which hasn't been a big problem for the jobs I have used the method on.

As far as the drain connection, I think it's as good if not better than a PVC connection. The bond to the drain flange is quite strong. Having said that though, I would like to rip one apart after a few years of use to see what was happening at that point.

merkretetyler
09-07-2008, 09:03 AM
I would question any drain connection without a fabric. The fabric adds a lot of additional strength, still allowing for the differences in movement between the mud and drain material. The liquid membranes bond to mud or drain; componants is not an issue. They bond very well.

The cure time before flood testing is a minimum of 48 hours. This is an issue compared to sheets.

The use of the liquid is similiar to pan material, preslope, apply a coat of liquid membrane, then flash all corners, dissimilar materials (like mud to drain), apply a second coat. Depending on the liquid membrane it may require fabric in the field as well (HG 2000 does, HG 1 does not). I prefer fabric in the field just so I know the membrane is thick enough. Apply a coat of the liquid, while it is wet, lay the fabric in to it, apply an additional layer of liquid until the fabric is well coated. Some people will run another - third, light coat over everything to be sure nothing has been missed - not required. Allow to cure and flood test.

Most manufacturer's have a lot of details and instructions on their websites. Our details can be found at http://www.mer-kote.com/kr-details07-b.htm

gueuzeman
09-07-2008, 10:21 AM
Mapei HPG- See thread in pro hangout about trowel applied membranes from last week, as well as many other threads here. Love fabric for the same reason mercrete stated. 24 years of liquid membranes, like anytthing you get used to the product and get better at it, as a DIY homeowner you may not have that luxury- do a light third coat, cheap insurance.

Steam shower ceiling-

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a150/gueuzeman/123006cielinginstall009.jpg

Ceiling and walls done, fabric on floor-
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a150/gueuzeman/MapeiHPGwaterproofing003.jpg

Shameless product placement-
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a150/gueuzeman/MapeiHPGwaterproofing017.jpg

gueuze

Kendal
09-07-2008, 10:22 PM
excellent thoughts here everyone...mercrete, thanks for the link, and to all who have responded. Gueuze, love the pictures as that always clarifies. I fortunately don't have the time issue as it is my own master bath that I'm updating......
Any other kind folks out there with some pictures would be welcome and thank you all so much!