running 110VAC under ceramic tile? [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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miketyler
04-24-2008, 10:19 AM
Hello all, am a newbie here. Someone was nice enough to send me a link to your forum. Looks like a great source for getting answers to tile and stone installations.

My issue? I just bought a newer foreclosure home (built in 2005) and want to install a kitchen island with a built-in fridge. I want to run electrical to it and prefer to run it under the tile and not overhead. The problem is that I have found no spare tile in the house or attic anywhere. It looks like it may be tough (or impossible) to match. No records available, was custom home built by the owner.

I dont want to cut and run the deco strip, or take up multiple tiles in the room and speckle it with a random alternate pattern. The tiles are about 13" square and I will need to pull up 4 of them. I've never pulled tile without destroying them in the process. Is it possible to pull them without busting them up?

A less traveled road: what about clearing a single grout line and trenching the slab? My grout lines are about 1/4" to 5/16" and I could get flat romex in there below the surface of the slab easy enough. Probably not up to code, but whats your thoughts on that?

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Fairview
04-24-2008, 10:40 AM
Nobody is going to like the idea of embedding wire in your tile.

What's the issue with going overhead through the ceiling? Aside from presumably no way to drop the electrical to the island?

xxPaulCPxx
04-24-2008, 10:42 AM
Just use a solar cell counter top! :)

I take it you are talking about a kitchen that is built on a slab. What year was it built?

A simple way of doing this would be to remove a cabinet near where you want the island to be. Cut a hole in the concrete with a jackhammer (or rotary hammer, it just takes longer) and a hole where your power will come out of the floor. Make a tunnel in the dirt under the slab between your two holes. An auger bit, and angle drill, and lots of extensions will do that trick. Run waterproof conduit through your hole with sweeps at either side. Seal the holes back up with concrete, then fish your power line through.

miketyler
04-24-2008, 11:08 AM
A simple way of doing this would be to remove a cabinet near where you want the island to be. Cut a hole in the concrete with a jackhammer (or rotary hammer, it just takes longer) and a hole where your power will come out of the floor. Make a tunnel in the dirt under the slab between your two holes. An auger bit, and angle drill, and lots of extensions will do that trick. Run waterproof conduit through your hole with sweeps at either side. Seal the holes back up with concrete, then fish your power line through.

I never thought of that, although it definitely will mean subbing out the slab bore and some dirty work. Still worth considering.

And yeah, I was pretty sure no one was going to like the trench idea. I wanted full access all the way around the island; the kitchen has high celings and didnt want to have to run a post or hood up that high

John Bridge
04-24-2008, 01:20 PM
Hi Mike, :)

Nope, I don't like the idea of encapsulating the wire, and neither will any qualified electrician. :D The conduit is the way to go.

java
04-24-2008, 01:24 PM
I have to inbed a few. Didn't bother me any.

But it wasn't my call.

Woodturner
04-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Please do not run it under the tile, and please do not run it in the grout joint. I am a certified electrician and doing that is against the National Electric Code. Have the concrete drilled and run it in the conduit, it is the correct way and it is also much safer for you and your family.

If the wire was under the tile and had a bare place in it and then got wet it could cause serious damage to your house or your family also and if your house burned down it can be determined what happened and your insurance company would cancel your policy and you would be left without a house.

miketyler
04-26-2008, 05:41 AM
hadn't thought of that either. I would think running liquid-tite under the slab would be just as safe. Nothing wrong with liquid-tite flex conduit run underground right?

Woodturner
04-26-2008, 05:54 AM
Yes you could run liquid-tite under your slab it is water proof...

Star
04-26-2008, 07:17 AM
That's a big no-no for the liquid-tite, code won't allow it over 3' in length.

"slab bore" c'mon, you can do those holes yourself, even a small cheap 1/2" hammer drill can handle that.

There's also another way, you could use mineral insulated cable embedded in the joint, the stuff is approved for direct burial in concrete. But, your still messing with the joint and stuff could still go wrong.


- pete

BTW too bad your not in Canada, we use armored Teck cables for running under slabs :-)

Woodturner
04-26-2008, 07:48 AM
Where I live you can run it up to 6 feet but I would check your local codes to see what is allowed...

esobocinski
04-28-2008, 09:03 AM
Liquidtight flex in the 1/2" and 3/4" sizes likely to be used in a home are usually rated for concrete encasement, but not all of it is. Look for "direct burial" or "dir bur" markings on the sleeve, which for liquidtight allows burial in concrete as well as earth.

The six foot length restriction (in the US) applies only if you're using the internal metallic shield in liquidtight flexible metallic conduit as the ground, as is often done for an air conditioner or lighting whip. If you instead run a ground wire along with the other conductors, a liquidtight run can be as long as you'd like. There's also a restriction of between 3' and 6' for unsupported lengths of liquidtight flex, but the stuff in/under concrete is supported. Just make sure that you add wall clamps on the unburied ends every 3' and with 1' of the wiring boxes, and you'll be fine for that too.

Short answer: This still looks like a good method to me if you have enough access at the ends to do it.

gueuzeman
04-28-2008, 06:06 PM
I'm guessing that this isn't a good place to ask about putting a suntouch mat in my shower floor?

Hat, coat, GFIC....

How about some cordless kitchen stuff for the island? Margaritas, anyone?
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/DM_GasBlender.jpg


gueuze

takimo
04-28-2008, 10:00 PM
ENT (Electrical Non-Metalic Tubing)is rated for U/G installations. Its corrigated flexible pvc. Look up "ent" on google. You need wet location rated wire when installed under a slab and a bond (ground) wire along with your circuit conductors.

In canada it can it can be ran indoors exposed when not subject to mechanical damage. Not sure if if the NEC allows it to be run exposed. If its not, just connect it to a junction box as it enters and exits the slab, then run romex inside the cabinets.

Good Luck!!
Terry