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derrhon
01-09-2003, 04:27 PM
Hello,

I am installing a shower pan on a cement floor. My questions are as follows.

1. What brand 'mud' do I use for the slope?

2. What brand 'mud' do I use over the pan liner?

I have been looking at QuickCrete products. Are they a good choice? The sand mix is 1 part portland cement and 3 parts coarse sand.

3. My drain pipe ends even with the top of the cement floor so when I put the drain cap on it is about 1 inch higher. Meaning, for me to lay the bottom layer of mud level with the bottom of the drain cap I would have to have about 1.375" of mud near the drain and thicker near the wall. Would you advise this or should I find someway of cutting that drain pipe off.

Thanks,

Derrick

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bbcamp
01-09-2003, 05:01 PM
Use the Quickcrete Sand Mix for both the preslope and the mortar bed You can add up to 2 parts sand to make it easier to work.

The preslope at the drain fitting should be 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick. The mortar bed should be 1 to 1 1/2 inch thick. Sounds like you don't have to do anything.

You are using a clamp-ring drain fitting, right?

http://partners.oatey.com/assets/subcategories/OAT_DRN_SDT_SDR.gif

davem
01-09-2003, 06:38 PM
Yep, Bob hooked you up fine. I have a picture that may help, although it sounds like you have it straight. :)
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/misevich/miscpics/deckmud.gif

John Bridge
01-09-2003, 08:15 PM
Welcome aboard, Derrick. :) The guys have you covered. I would cut the drain pipe (riser) down a little just so I wouldn't need a curb that might seem high to some. the lower the pre-slope, the lower the curb you can make. You'll have to chop out a little concrete from around the pipe. A heavy cold chisel and a 3 lb. maul will do it.

derrhon
01-09-2003, 09:41 PM
Thanks so much to all of you,

I am almost done with the framing and now I can finally buy the mix now that I know what to look for.

I have the right drain according to the pics.

I will cut the pipe down and luckily have - a little - room around it to work it.

Best regards,

Derrick

derrhon
01-11-2003, 10:44 AM
Hello,

When I put the backerboard up:

How far should it be above the finished bed?

And if I put it several inches above the finished bed:

What goes in the space between the bed and the board?

The board sticks out 0.5" from the wall studs. From the material and pictues it looks like you fill that in with mortar and try to make it even with the backerboard on the wall.

Regards,

Derrick

davem
01-11-2003, 11:29 AM
There are two mud beds right? One on top of the subfloor that is sloped to the bottom half of the drain. Then the liner goes in. Then the backerboard goes up, leave it 1/2" -1" above the liner. Then the final deck goes in, and it buries the bottom of the backerboard, since it will be at least 1 1/4" inches thick.
Some guys worry about the CBU wicking water, so they don't bury it in the final deck, and even caulk the bottom of it. The guys who bury it say in a proper shower with pre-slope, things are going to be dry enough to not have a problem.

derrhon
01-11-2003, 11:46 AM
Yep, two decks. I am just about to put the first one in. Now at least this part is clear. Thanks for much.:)

Regards,

Derrick

e3
01-11-2003, 11:58 AM
i did not see which board you are using.. if it is a cement board(ie.wonderboard) then it can be buired below the mud or above. if it's dens sheild or hardy it should be terminated above the mud bed ,then caulked.

derrhon
01-11-2003, 12:26 PM
Hey thanks,

It is dens shield. I will terminate slightly above then. I have never used this. I usually use Hardy on a floor but could not find it. I hope that dens shield is worthy stuff.

Derrick

davem
01-11-2003, 12:47 PM
oops. Sorry about that one. :o

derrhon
01-14-2003, 08:24 AM
I am about to start tiling the walls and ceiling. I was going to try to find an 8" tile to use but after reading John's description of tiles I am not sure I will be able to find one suitable for a shower.

From the description it looks like you either use the 4.25" or a porcelain type to be water resistant.

Also, I was going to install a soap dish and was just planning on thin setting it in with the tile when I lay it. Is this acceptable? I read one of the other threads and it lead me to believe I should have installed it prior to putting on the backer or it should be glued on after.

Regards,

Derrick

bbcamp
01-14-2003, 09:13 AM
Let's talk about Den-shield. You know that it is a gypsum based product, right? You know that gypsum turns to mush when exposed to water, right? And you know that the only thing that protects the gypsum is the plastic surface layer (it would be paper if it were wallboard), right? So you know that the only way you can protect your shower from failure is to seal all breaks in the plastic surface. All of them. The screw holes, end cuts, accidental tears, etc.

The instructions for Dens-shield say to seal the bottom edge of the boards with silicone caulk and to tape and thinset the joints. You should also apply thinset to all the screw heads, like a drywall installation. You should also apply silicone caulk to the cutouts for the shower head and control valve.


All things considered, consider using another backerboard, any kind that isn't gypsum based.

John Bridge
01-14-2003, 05:44 PM
Derreck,

I agree with Bob (bbcamp). In fact, I'll go beyond that. Denshield is crap. Certainly doesn't belong in a shower, despite what the manufacturer (Georgia-Pacific) says.

derrhon
01-18-2003, 12:06 AM
I bought a ceramic soap dish and tray to put in my shower along the wall. The type is one that you install when you lay the tile. It attaches using thinset. My question,

Do any of you have any experience you could relay to me on the best way to install these? They are quite heave and I am wondering if the thinset really holds them to the wall. I assume I will have to tape them up somehow or support them. But even after it dries I wonder if they will come off easily.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Derrick

John Bridge
01-18-2003, 07:26 PM
Derreck,

You're using the Dens-shield still? :)

There are several ways of installing the dish. I do it when I'm grouting the shower. I first smear a little thin set on the back of the dish, and then I load it up with grout, shove it into the hole and clear off the excess. Later, I wash around it when I wash the grout off the walls. It'll stay there that way.

But I've never done it over Dens-shield. :D

derrhon
01-18-2003, 08:10 PM
Yes, I am using the Dens-Shield, at least on the top part of the shower. I had already taped the seams. I put cement board on the bottom.

You idea is good. I looked on the homepage of this company that sells these, Lenape Products - www.lenapebath.com - and they say to use liquid nails for the profession series that I bought.

I tried one with liquid nails, maybe I will use your method for the other two. Yours sounds cleaner.

One question - you must use something to keep it held tight in the hole. These things are heavy. I have it duct taped up with wood support under it.

Regards,

Derrick

John Bridge
01-18-2003, 09:58 PM
Derreck,

I wouldn't have been sarcastic had I known you already had the stuff up and taped. Sorry.

Actually, the suction of the grout in the hole holds the thing in place. And I'll tell ya, thousands of tile guys have done it that way for a lot of years, but seriously, I've never tried it over Dens-Shield, which because of it's water barrier on the front, won't suck up like mud or backer board will.

So maybe you'd better put a piece of tape on it while is sets. I really don't know. :)

The Liquid nails idea is a loser. They're just trying to get folks off their backs. They don't really know and don't care.

derrhon
01-18-2003, 10:26 PM
Thanks John,

A little sarcasm is good for the soul.

Thanks for the advice on this.

Regards,

Derrick

derrhon
01-20-2003, 10:53 AM
My fiance has asked if I could now tile the walls in the bathroom up to a height of about 48". Well, the walls are sheetrocked and painted. So, I asked a few friends here at work if I need to remove all that sheet rock up to that height and replace with cbu. They said NO. I wonder? I looked on this site back to about page 6 and could not find an answer.

What would you guys say? It will not be exposed to water; what I am worried about, however, is the thinset sticking to the painted sheetrock.

Regards,

Derrick

tileguytodd
01-20-2003, 11:10 AM
Scrub the painted walls with a trisodium Phasphate mixture.This will desheen the paint.This will help to adhere the tile.
The best way would be to remove the sheetrock and put in CBU, but the tile will stick with this lil bit of prep work. Be sure to check out the location of lightswithes outlets etc. You want your tile to either end above or below them not in the middle. 48" Generally will fall smack in the middle.
If you are using a 4 1/4" x 4 1/4" tile think 51" or 42 3/4 for finished heights.
If you are using another size,try to use full tiles if possible.
Will you be using Base tile A3401??

derrhon
01-20-2003, 11:41 AM
I used 6x6 in the shower and was planning on carring that right out of the shower along the wall and around the room so I have one tile above the sink. I will have to check to see what that leaves me at the bottom where I meet the floor.

I will have to check the light switch but I know what you mean. I guess I prefer to go below.

I think what you mean by base tile is that stuff that kinda curves away from the wall at the bottom???? I was thinking on just going straight down with no base at the bottom. I was going to tile the floor with 8x8 and not worry about matching up grout lines between the floor and wall. Don't know how this will look?

What would a professional do?

Regards,

Derrick

John Bridge
01-20-2003, 06:22 PM
That sounds like a plan, Derreck. The sheetrock is fine outside the shower. You just have to make sure the paint won't give way.

Six inch on walls and eight on the floor is fine.

tileguytodd
01-20-2003, 06:45 PM
A proffessional would have talked her into tiling all the way to the ceiling ;)
Something to consider is putting your floor tiles in on a diagonal.Changing direction of tile takes away any need for matchup of groutlines although with differant sized tiles it would look fine johns way also :)