Shower help needed [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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rjm
03-05-2007, 11:55 AM
I'm looking to install marble 12x's edge to edge (no grout spacers) on a walk-in shower wall and would like to get some experienced comments as to why I should or shouldn't. Also, I would appreciate any recommendations as to which product(S) to adhere the tile to the CBU. (MBM, Thinset, any additives, etc.) Thank you.

Jay

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Brian in San Diego
03-05-2007, 12:04 PM
Jay,

If you read a few threads around here you won't find too many recommending setting tile w/o grout lines, especially in the shower. Good place for mold and whatnot to take hold. You can, however, install a very small grout line, 1/16" or less. You would want to use a premium modified thinset mortar to set your tiles. Depending on the color of the tile would determine whether you would use white or grey. If they are green, there is a special mortar for that as well. (To alleviate bleed through.)

Brian

Brian in San Diego
03-05-2007, 01:59 PM
Jay,

There is no such thing as premixed thinset. The stuff that is sold in plastic tubs is not thinset and has no place in a shower or on a floor. However, thinset that comes in powder form in a bag comes in all different varieties. Some of it modified and some unmodified. Modified means that polymer additives have been added to the mixture. You can also add liquid polymers. Personally, I use Custom's Versabond, which is available in white and grey. (Available at the Big Orange store) There are many others. Mapei, Laticrete and TEC to name a few all have premium thinset products.

The only thing I can say about the book...you can't believe everything that's in print and although the "look" might be great, none of the "pros" that installed it have to maintain it.

Brian

rjm
03-05-2007, 02:09 PM
Brian,
Thanks for clearing up my question about the modified thinset.
Jay

rjm
03-06-2007, 08:37 AM
Q1. As for the walls in general, I understand that there should be a gap between the bottom of CBU to the top of base curb and then another gap where the tile meets the top of base for caulking) I would appreciate the desired gaps in inches between CBU (Durock) and top of base curb and ditto for the caulking gap.

Q2. I have read where membrane can either be placed behind the CBU or painted on the front face of CBU. Can anyone explain the preferred method? Wouldn't it be better to prevent moisture before it hits the CBU?

Q3. What is the best method for filling in holes around the shower and control valve?

Q4. Finally, is it always advisable to butter the back of the tile with flat edge (marble 12x's) in addition to applying thinset to CBU as directed?

Thank you.
Jay

DennisL
03-06-2007, 11:30 AM
Here is a DYIer answer:

It seems to me that this might be a bad idea. I'm installing a Kohler 42" neo-angle shower now and if yours is like mine I see several problems.
- It might feel claustrophobic inside with just a small doorway, especially if you bring the sidewalls to the ceiling.
- If you don't bring the sidewalls to the ceiling, you will have two free standing walls that will probably need 2x6 construction.
- With 2x6 construction, it will be difficult to line up the door. In any case, the door will appear to be inset into the doorway.
- As you said, there is no lip, so the only thing you can do to seal the inside of the shower to the sidewalls is lots of silicone caulk.

Let's see what a pro says.

rjm
03-06-2007, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the feedback. I am also awaiting Pros to answer some of the other questions. I am going to install a 42" receptor made by Americh. I originally wanted Kohler, but it doesn't match up with my existing drain location.

I am alternately shopping around for 3/8" frameless and hearing price of between $2,700 to $3,500 installed. My concern with all glass (besides the sticker shock) is how it will look after each shower, as we are considering clear glass. The other problem is that frameless on a Neo is actually semi-frameless.

rjm
03-06-2007, 03:13 PM
Pros needed

rjm
03-07-2007, 08:19 AM
Some help needed please.

rjm
03-07-2007, 10:01 AM
Q1. As for the walls in general, I understand that there should be a gap between the bottom of CBU to the top of base curb and then another gap where the tile meets the top of base for caulking) I would appreciate the desired gaps in inches between CBU (Durock) and top of base curb and ditto for the caulking gap.

Q2. I have read where membrane can either be placed behind the CBU or painted on the front face of CBU. Can anyone explain the preferred method? Wouldn't it be better to prevent moisture before it hits the CBU?

Q3. What is the best method for filling in holes around the shower and control valve?

Q4. Finally, is it always advisable to butter the back of the tile with flat edge (marble 12x's) in addition to applying thinset to CBU as directed?

Thank you.
Jay

bikemike
03-07-2007, 11:21 AM
Hi Jay,

From your post title I thought you might need help taking a shower - glad that is not the case... :D

Q1 The CBU should be 1/8" higher than the tub lip, and the tile should be 1/8" higher than the tub deck.

Q2 Yes, yes and yes. Proper waterproofing installed either behind or on top of the CBU will do the job of keeping moisture off the walls and floor behind the enclosure. Waterproofing the face of the CBU will keep it dry as well and should drastically reduce or eliminate the potential for mold and mildew buildup in your shower. This can be done with Redgard or Kerdi, lots of info on both on the site.

Q3 100% silicone caulk or Kerdi Fix if going the Kerdi route

Q4 I believe John Bridge, CEO of these forums, puts five dollops of thinset on the back of each tile. I defer to the pros on this one.

Good luck!

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-07-2007, 11:27 AM
I wouldnt flat skim the entire tile if its going onto the wall. Just put about 5-6 dollaps of mud on each tile and press it firmly onto the wall. This will aid in keeping the marble flat to eachother. What type of marble? Depending on which one, you might need to use white thinset.

rjm
03-07-2007, 01:37 PM
Thank you, BIKEMIKE, but which part is the lip and which part is the deck?

There is a mounting flange, which gets attached to the studs and then there's a flat surface below that, which I referred to as the base curb. I don't see anything else in the diagram and unfortunately, I don't physically have the receptor yet. I was expecting you to say that the Durock mounts in front of the mounting flange so high off the flat surface, and then the tile, etc. Are you saying that the cement board should be mounted 1/8" above the mounting flange?

PS I probably will need help getting into and out of the shower after this project.

bikemike
03-08-2007, 07:26 AM
Jay,

Sorry, thought you were installing a tub. Not sure why I thought that, other than I've been addressing a lot of questions on tubs lately :crazy:

Once the receptor is installed the nailing flange needs to be on the same plane as the face of your studs. You can accomplish this one of two ways: 1. notch the studs so that the flange rests in the notch or 2. secure the flange to the studs and then install furring strips the length of the studs above the nailing flange. The idea is that your CBU can then be installed and won't "bulge out" because the flange is in the way.

As far as spacing you should follow the mfrs install instructions as they all vary somewhat. CBU 1/4" above the "base curb" as you call it is pretty typical.

I'm not feeling well today :sick: so from here I'm going to have to punt. Good luck!

rjm
03-08-2007, 11:16 AM
Ok, I think I've got it Mike: (or not)

Q1 If we assume that the mfg advises the CBU to be mounted 1/4" higher than the "base curb," the tile will end up overlapping the CBU at the bottom by 1/8", which leaves a gap of 1/8" from the bottom edge of the tile to the curb. Is this correct?

Q2 If the above is correct, do I attempt to get the caulk to fill up into the entire 1/4" gap behind the tile or just run a bead straight along the bottom of the tile?

Q3 Digressing a little, have you or anyone heard of Red Rosin paper by Trimaco and what are your thoughts on using it as a moisture blocker, shingle style, behind the Durock?

Marge
03-08-2007, 12:36 PM
Hi Jay,

Just wanted to let you know I have merged all your threads relating to this shower project into one thread. It helps us keep track of the history and provides the information needed for the experts to give you the correct advice. Please keep all future questions about this project on this thread. If you aren't getting a response, feel free to post again so it will bump your thread to the top. Also, if you would like the thread renamed, let me know and we can do that for you as well. :)

Good luck with your shower!

bikemike
03-09-2007, 08:18 AM
Hi Jay,

Got your PM. Not feeling too well the past few days :sick:

Q1 That's about right. It's OK for the tile to rest below the CBU a bit, remember there will be thinset behind it anyway and it's not like its really unsupported, but 1/8" is nothing to worry about anyway.

Q2 Caulk the gap between the tile and the floor like you normally would, but it is a good idea to keep firm pressure on the caulk gun (within reason) so the caulk is always oozing out as you go, this forces some caulk deeper into the joint if you know what I mean. Makes for a stronger seal but you don't want to go crazy and have a mess on your hands

Q3 I've used Red Rosin paper under hardwood flooring but not as a moisture barrier. I'm going to have to punt on this one. Try an internet search or wait for a pro to chime in.

Good luck!

rjm
03-09-2007, 08:57 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, Mike and feel better.

In the meantime, I welcome comments from anyone regarding the use of Red Rosin behind Durock.

Jay