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03-10-2005, 11:30 AM
So I'm moving on to the 'next project'. The upstairs bath :yeah: We've gone back and forth on quite a few things and have almost reached an 'agreement'.

Here's a couple of pics of the project before it's started again. I have more, but am feeling guilty by all the pictures. The project will consist of removing all wall plaster and replacing with drywall/greenboard/cementboard stuff while keeping the lath-I think. Replace vanity and terlit. Remove existing surround (yes that cheap thing there now) and build for new shorter 48"x32" shower with plumbing moved to inside wall and install linen cabinet on same wall as shower. Install pocket door. Tile shower to ceiling. Tile floor. That's the BIG picture anyway.

One of the things we're still debating is the shower floor or pan. To build it from scratch or to buy a pre-made one from US Marble. And I'm still tossing back and forth whether or not to drive almost 4 hours to go to the Kerdi clinic tomorrow too. :uhh: Anywho. Anyone familiar with these shower pans or this product? Have you seen pictures of showers that use them then tile above (would love to see examples)? Can you tell me anything at all about how a seat might work in it? I have a crude diagram of their seat and it looks like it just sits on the edges of the pan in the corner. I can't find any instructions for the seat. Heck I don't even know if it would 'work' in a 48" shower. I'm figuring I have to put in a seat for when I'm old and gray and can longer hike my leg up on the shower wall to shave :D

Another question regarding materials is how do you match up soap dishes and shelves to the tile you're using? Or do you just get close. I've read bits and parts about these and niches too and there was at least company that was mentioned, but heck if I can find the thread again :crazy:

As always, information and guidance is extremely appreciated! :bow:

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03-10-2005, 11:40 AM
Marni, you are no longer a rookie, so we expect nothing less than a custom shower pan, monument bench and either a niche or corner shelves made from granite tiles! :D

If you have the time to attend the clinic, do so. However, we've had a bunch of folks master the method just by watching the video and asking a few questions.

I have every confidence that you can do this bathroom any way you chose to do it. So, post some more pictures (we like pictures, remember?) and let's get started!

03-10-2005, 11:42 AM
Hi Marni,

I've been following your other project so I guess I'm hooked. Your new project is similar to what I just told my hubbie a few days ago that we'll have to do "someday"--and he said "well, yeah, maybe we'll be ready to do it in 2007".

Anyway, when you say you're going to take out all of the wet plaster, do you mean just around the tub/shower area or the whole room? Why would you want to take it out of the whole room, if so?

And I'd encourage you to go to the Kerdi clinic and then report back here your impressions for those of us who are lurking around. I'm thinking in your case and my (future) case that the Kerdi system would be the perfect solution to remodeling an upstairs tub to shower conversion!

Re. niches, I think there's info in the liberry for you. Or try searching on niche, bonsal, or noble company. :)

03-10-2005, 12:04 PM
Yeah, but I still have spots in my grout :(. I'll deal with that in a little bit. Hah, I found niches and benches by Innovis. Thread was right under my nose the whole time. That looks like a good product. Are there any other companies I should check out. Oh yeah, definitely forget about that US Marble bench! This will be way better.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Bob :D


I swear men just don't like their "throne" messed with :D! Yeah, Maggie Lou. I've done my bit with repairing wet plaster. Even Wet plastered where an old shower wall used to be (3'x9' - that was interesting). Well, it's like this. There's very thick glue on the upper part of the wall from old wallpaper. I've done the scrape and sand and rub bit and still had new paint peel once. Not to say I wouldn't do if it that was what was all that wrong but... The bottom half of the walls below the wood trim is plaster too that has had a subway tile pattern put into apparently while it was drying 91 or so ago. It looks kind of cheesy... sort of like (gulp) painted tile :) Plus, since there is no overhead light, no exhaust fan and no wall switch to the vanity lights or anywhere else in there anyway I'll be making so many holes it will look like a square swiss cheese replica. SO, I'm thinkin it would be better to start fresh rather than bust a bunch of holes in it and patch it back up. The room is only 6x9x9. Yep, and theres plaster behind that green board too which was "glued and screwed". When I pull down the green board I'll most likely remove plaster too.

That's a long drive though Maggie Lou! Yikes! Is Kings Island open this time of year?

Duh, dangit, I keep forgetting to go back to the liberry :bang:! Thanks for the reminder.

Madison Mike
03-10-2005, 01:54 PM
Marni - I've been hanging out here for a while, following your post and loving your pictures! The pic of the tile spacer is now the background on my laptop, although it was a close one between that and the pic of the stack of tiles.

As far as the niches go, has some called Proform, has some under the Recess-It name , and has some preformed niches as well. I've used Recess-It niches (with some headaches) and about to try some from Noble. I'll let you know how the one from Noble works out.

Keep the pictures coming!!

Madison, WI

03-10-2005, 02:22 PM
Marni, go for it on your own. Kerdi is very good to work with. Between the CD, John's book, and this forum, you can do it like a pro. If you've ever hung wallpaper then you have it made!!

03-10-2005, 04:02 PM
Yeah, you're probably right. I just like to SEE and TOUCH the product before I buy it. Plus if I went to the clinic I'd have to leave here at like 4:30/5:00ish in the AM... oooh, that's early!

I talked hubby into going for the Kerdi system and the tile floor! Whoo hoo! Now, where the heck do ya buy the stuff? Now if I can convince him to nix the blue counter top. :uhh:

Sometimes the pics come easy, Mike, and sometimes they don't; glad you like em! I'm running out of new and interesting things to shoot though. I suppose because I've seen the same scene over and over (same tile, same room, same thinset, same bucket, same window...). Although I did make a mud pie the other day... :D

Thanks for those links too. I was checking out the innovis site and liked what I saw there. I'll certainly take a look at the others too and add them to the ever growing collection of links in the "DIY SHOWER" folder.

Ok, it's bar night tonight :dance: and I gotta finish dealing with the grout in the other room and feed the doggies before I get to leave.

03-10-2005, 04:36 PM
Marni, Get your Schluter products from There is a link on the sidebar in the Tile Your World Online Store or you can go directly to their site at:

I ordered all of my Kerdi membrane and Ditra from them. The service and prices are outstanding. Also, I think the John Bridge Forum gets a little something back to help out with this site when you order from them.

I wasn't trying to discourage you from attending the clinic. I think that would be great. Just trying to tell you the system is really easy to do with the help of everyone here. Also, the Schluter folks appear to be very willing to help.

03-11-2005, 10:09 AM
I elected not to take the 4 hour jaunt to Cinci for the Kerdi clinic. Thanks for the link, Clyde. I've been there before and watched the online video but figured there were other places (local) that sold the system.

Question about the Kerdi Shower System. The shower tray is to be 32"x48" and Kerdi only sells the product in 48"x48" and 32"x60". Kerdi states that the product can be easily cut to fit, but I can't find any info on how to do that. I would assume that I would cut down a 48x48 tray to fit my 32x48 desired dimensions. And also that since the drain should be centered I would need to cut 8" off each end of the tray. Since the tray is presloped, by cutting off the ends I would be essentially changing the slope of the tray. By cutting off 8" from a pre-sloped design, which I assume is based on the 1/4" per foot rule, I have basically reduced my slope on 2 sides and therefore no longer have a 'perfect' slope. Yes this a minute difference, but water doesn't care. Is this being way to picky?

On a more simplified plane... I assume that the tray is solid from the center to the edges. How do you cut it?

03-11-2005, 11:23 AM
Marni, I used deck mud for my preslope. It really was fairly easy once I got into it. I viewed the Kerdi video several times, kept John's book handy, reviewed the threads in the forum and it turned out very nice.

I don't know if you could cut the Kerdi System base down to size or not. Some of the pros can comment on that.

03-11-2005, 12:35 PM
The problem with not cutting the tray evenly all the way around is that the first row of tile on the bottom will not be even. There is not problem with the slope, as the proper slope is built into the tray. I also built my pan with deck mud and it worked out fine. Now if Lowes will ever get our shower door in we can actually use the shower!

03-11-2005, 02:58 PM
Yep, you're absolutely right, the bottom of the tiles would also be off. Which is of more concern than having a 1/6" slope difference! :sick: That would be-a-no-good.

MUD? I gotta use that stuff again? Just kiddin'. First experience was not so good though. Can someone please specify in the MUD recipe thread that you should use SHARP sand or whatever it's supposed to be? :eek: I used all purpose sand in my recipe cause that is what the recipe pictured; not the same bag but was 'all purpose sand'. Mine was extremely pebbley and impossible to feather to anything less than 1/8" high. I had to chip the pebbles away from the edges after it dried and then I used runny thinset to feather it. I thought it was finally all good until I was brooming the floor before setting in the tile and discovered that it was NOT good. Oh well, it was just more work. I scraped up practically all the deck mud and wound up using concrete patch to raise up my low spots instead; ya can't even sand that stuff! I just learned that it was suppose to be 'sharp' sand as John states in his book. Or maybe I just did it wrong... who knows. I know nothin about sand except the kind on the beach and even that sand is different from one to another. :yeah:

Yep, I watched all the videos a couple times each. And it looks so easy! It just can't be that easy. Of course now I can't find where I saw that it's easy to cut the tray. Since cutting the tray will result in the lower tiles being dissimiliar, like Terri pointed out, perhaps I should consider using just part of the shower system and not the whole thing. I'm already aware of the fact that the curb will be easy enough to do with 2x4(s).

Hey Clyde, so what part of the Kerdi system did you use? What does your project consist of?

Crud, Terri, you're all done but for the shower door? I think I'd have to rig up a tension rod curtain and use that puppy.

03-11-2005, 04:03 PM
Well, it's been 6 months and my 3 weekend project is almost done! It's been almost done for months. I had my husband do the caulking, 'cause I totally suck at it. We've been sharing the kids' shower all this time and they will be so glad to get us out of their bathroom.

03-11-2005, 04:54 PM
Hey Clyde, so what part of the Kerdi system did you use? What does your project consist of?
Marni, My project is a new master bathroom and a new sunroom. You can check out my thread at:

Somewhere around #46 it gets into the shower construction. I used a mud bed with Kerdi drain and Kerdi all over the inside. Loved working with it. I need to post some current pichers of the shower. It's done and we love it. Still have to finish the surround, set the whirlpool tub, and plumb it. Somehow, my wife's eye surgery, our daughter's wedding, and having to move my mother-in-law from the coast of SC to a seniors' apartment complex near Chapel Hill, NC has delayed completion of the bathroom. Then I have to do the floor in the sunroom some day. :crazy:

Terri, We went with a shower curtain from the beginning and have no problems with it. Like John says, when it gets cruddy, just buy a new one :D

03-12-2005, 10:00 AM
If the Kerdi tray needs to be cut to accomodate a smaller size shower and thus that changes the height of at least one side. Can you accomodate for the height difference using mud? I know that sort of defeats the purpose of using the tray, but is that how you do it?

03-13-2005, 08:53 AM
Is there a preferred way to put a glass door on a 48" wide opening? The only info I have so far is that the door itself shouldn't be more than 30" which would mean an 18" stationary pane. Since the door must be hinged on the left and since the piping must be on the right, this creates 18" that has to be reached around to turn on water. Is this true about the max 30" being preferred even though I've seen them bigger? Also how hard is it to hang a glass door or should it be installed by someone that's done it at least once before? Did any of you non-pros do it yourself?

Are considering bringing out the left wall to close in the doorway by the 18" on the left side then attach the hinged door to that. Do you see any problems with that scenario beside it being more enclosed and thus darker?

Is the bottom of a framed or semi-framed door angled to fit the slope of the curb? The one that I saw yesterday had a piece on the bottom of the door that was hinged, but the rail (with out using a level) seemed flat.

I've checked out HD Expo Center door and have looked online at Wilson Glass which someone posted the link for. Any other suggestions where to check for a quality door that doesn't require a 2nd mortgage? Would area glass companies do this or is that more of a kitchen/bath store product?

Speaking of glass. Anyone know of a great flush mount medicine cabinet company that sells big mirrors them in a size like 30" wide by 24" tall. Most I've seen are vertical mirrors or square. Reason for flush mount is I just finished my office on other side of that wall---not risking plaster cracks due to 2x4's being removed and the niche being built :uhh: . Plus I still haven't seen an inwall one that size unless I hang it sideways and well that wouldn't be very effective! :crazy:

Thanks again. We're whittling it down! Sorry again about all the reading.
:bow: :bow: :bow:

03-13-2005, 09:15 AM
Hi Marni :)

I don't advise going larger than 30" on glass door width. Are you planning on using heavy glass (3/8" or 1/2")? If so, I strongly suggest the use of a pro.

Is it possible to use a sliding door system? If not, 18" reach isn't too bad.

With a header (metal track), you can move the full stationary panel to the left, use a pivot system, and keep hinge left (no partition necessary).

Most doors have a rubber sweep to accommodate for the pitch.

Have a cabinet company make the box, and inform them you want a mirror on the door. You or them can have the glass company do this. 24" high by 30" will probably need to be made with two doors. If you don't want the seam in the center, you'll need three doors.

03-13-2005, 08:32 PM
Thanks John. Any advise is muchas appreciated. Dang, I wish I knew just what to get and where to go to get it. That would take at least 1/2 the battle out of the design/thinking stage of this project.

Doesn't the thickness of the glass depend on the style? The HD Expo lady was saying that the framed doors can use 1/4" glass because the frame gives the extra desired stiffness but the frameless requires thicker glass. Now if that's 1/2 or 3/8 I dunno. I think. I won't hesitate to have a pro put it in if it is recommended to do so. I guess that will depend on what door we go with. Really don't care for the sliding glass look.

Hinges? I need those? :) I haven't quite grasped the functionality of the different hinges with the door styles and mounts. I'll have to study the wilsonglass site :)

A rubber sweep. Must be under the frame cause I didn't see one of those on the doors I saw.

That's an interesting idea for a large medicine cabinet.

Thanks for taking the time to reply :) :) :)

John Bridge
03-14-2005, 07:20 PM


Get hold of these people. Dave Wilson runs the place. They are DIY headquarters for glass enclosures all over the country. They also sell my book in their California store, so you know right there they are good folks. ;)

03-15-2005, 05:33 AM
Yep, been to the Wilson Glass site many times now. I love the look of their doors, but I don't see any that are semi-frameless. And I'm supposing that these are what he refers to as American Doors which he states he doesn't carry. "Why not go with Euro-style?" you ask. Because I can't stand bare feet on a wet bath mat. Plus I'd rather not mix cleaning with grooming :sick:. IMO the Euro design door in a smaller shower (we've decided on 36W"x48L") the water will no doubt be hitting the doors when showering and since the doors aren't 'complete' (there are gaps because of the frameless design) the water will also come out.

Plus, I don't know anything about installing a glass door. Some of Wilson's how-to links aren't working. Might want to tell him about that if he's a buddy of yours John cause it kind of looks bad on the consumer's end :)

I'm not going to order anything obviously until the shower is complete. So I'll try to keep my options open. The HD one was fine, but I'm not completely sold on it yet.

I do like Wilson's stand-offs and like the way they used them for picture frame. And since I still haven't hung any art in my new 'playroom/office' I'm considering using that type of framing. I guess that's sort of like the plumber with the leaky faucet :D

Feel free to contradict me on any of the above!

03-15-2005, 06:19 AM
Hi Marni :)

Do you have a HD Expo near you?

If so go look at the shower enclosures there. Usually there are a few local company's doing the heavy glass. Call one of them, and get a quote.

03-15-2005, 07:50 AM
something else to consider. My old bathroom had a thin shower door with an aluminum frame and I had planned to put in a new heavy glass door. The old shower never dried completely because of lack of air circulation and with the humid summers in our area things would grow on the tiles and had to be beaten back with clorox. In the new shower I decided to stay with the temporary curtain I set up because now the shower dries out completely and it is a much healthier setup.

03-15-2005, 09:04 AM
John, actually all 3 Michigan HD Expo centers are all close enough (Furthest one is maybe 50 mins). We'd still have to go back and firm up our decision and price it out based on what we've decided we want. I stopped in a couple glass/mirror/door stores yesterday and priced them out. WOW, one wanted $400 to install it on top of $820 for door. The other was $950 installed. These 2 prices were for Daiek products. I believe the HD expo was priced around $800. But I'd have to ask the hubby what dimensions he gave the lady (I was roaming the store looking at all the good stuff :)). I also can't find any information on the door that HD Expo carries. I wrote the company down while there as GOLDENWIND &... (that was on the tag), but heck if I can find any info on that company online. I also plan on checking out a Basco dealer that's in the are as well as the 'local' glass company.

We're looking at an 18" side panel with a 30" door. I've heard that the door can attach to the side panel which would be prefered providing it's sturdy enough. Or the door would be attached to a stud on the exterior wall side and the side panel would be on the side that the door closes to. We've also considered having 2 9" panels on each side to balance it out. I really can't see spending more than $900 installed on this! Where's the animated smiley that's tossing money up in the air?

Joe, how big was your old bath? How high were the ceilings? What part of the country do you live (to gauge humidity compared to MI). Our downstairs shower is open on two sides with a curtain; 2 plastic curtains actually that wrap around it on a curved rod supported by the walls and ceiling. We keep the curtain closed all the time. It's a skirted claw tub which is why it's only enclosed on 2 sides. The ceiling is tiled and there is no exhaust fan in there, but we shower with the door open all the time anyway. I have to hit the ceiling with X-14 (while wearing a respirator :crazy:) about ever 8 months or so cause I'll start get a few moldy spots in the grout lines. The ceiling is 9'.

I wonder if anyone else out there is sorry for putting up a glass door. Any pro suggestions for keeping things from growing in the shower? Are there design things to consider for better air movement?

Oops, another long post! :talk:

03-15-2005, 01:39 PM
The bathroom is a tiny thing, 4'x7'. It was literally made from a closet with no window and an inadequate exhaust fan. They had the ceiling at 8' except in the shower area it was 7' and they had part of the space boxed in to accomodate a square shower base. With the glass door, there was only about 12" of open space above the glass door, and it was always wet in there. showering in a box. We live in Nyack, NY in the Hudson Valley about 30 miles north of NYC. In July and August, the temp and humidity can make it feel like New Orleans.
I was able to push the ceiling up to 9'4" through the whole space and squared off the room by building the tile shower base. Tiled the whole space up to the ceiling with porcelain tile which dries very quickly. The bathroom works well because there is no shower door and we keep the bathroom door open when it is not in use. The bathroom opens to the MBR which is quite large with a high ceiling and two good windows which gives good air flow. We have gone through two summers with the new install and there is not a sign of anything growing.

03-15-2005, 10:12 PM
Thanks for sharing that info, Joe. Now I'm worried about mold. Like figuring out how to put it together wasn't enough :p

After running around looking at materials and vanities and doors for the past two days, we're finally coming to conclusions as to how we want this to be redone. So I started tearing it out today (for the second time). Removed all the woodwork from window, chair rail, base, door frame. Removed medicine cabinet, surround and nocked out 1/2 plaster at end of tub. Stud wall is giving me a hard time so I better wait until plumber unhooks piping (again). Had some time to practice 'standing around' too. I think I need to work on it though, since Dave (the hubby) seems to think I'm just taking a break!

See why I'm taking out the plaster? Although we did decide to leave it up and cap it everywhere outside the shower though since the original plan of tiling 1/2 way up walls has changed to tiling just inside the shower and the floor. That white part that looks like subway tile is plaster! And yes, those are liquid nail trails on the walls from under the greenboard in the soon to be shower area. This is the first time I've taken apart the window trim and door frame. I'm just amazed at how they did this stuff way back then! Everything is ONE piece! It would take me at least 3 pieces to recreate what they made from 1.

I hope there are some carpenters here when I go to rebuild! Here's a picture of the ummm progress. :yeah: It probably doesn't look like that big of a deal to you guys!

Welcoming suggestions for removing the plaster and coming up with a convincing 'stand around' look!

03-16-2005, 06:26 AM
Hi Marni :)

Great picture!

You look like you're at an art gallery (checking out someones work). Can't be anymore "stand around" than that! ;)

03-16-2005, 06:42 AM
Bah ha ha, an art gallery! It is rather 'festive' looking though :) I need that 'this might be difficult.... and I dunno' look like John mentions in his book. I have a feeling I'll get some real experience when I start putting it back together! :rolleyes:

03-16-2005, 09:08 AM
Your 'stand around' look is very good, you might add a bottle or glass of your favorite adult beverage for added effect! :)

If that is 'lathe and plaster' on your walls and I suspect it is get ready for some major dust!
If you don't want to take all the wall down just use a carbide bit in a skill saw and cut a line, then get a crow bar and start ripping the lathe from the studs, the plaster will come off in smallish pieces. Get a trash can and toss it in to hual it out of the house and remember, that stuff is heavy!

Dust mask, eye protection and gloves are manditory!!
You may also want to use some plasitc sheets to keep the dust from the rest of the house.

Have fun!!

03-16-2005, 10:57 AM
You may be better off collecting a bunch of medium-sized cardboard boxes for debris removal. Trash cans get heavy fast. Tape the bottoms of the boxes well. Where I live, as long as you only put a few out at a tiime, the municipal trash collectors will take the debris.

03-16-2005, 11:11 AM
You're lucky! I had to haul it to the dump myself. The extra charge for more trash is very high!
I used the trash cans to get the stuff out of the house and into my truck.

03-17-2005, 12:42 PM
Yeah, I had a bottle of water up there, but I thought that might look like I was 'resting' rather than pondering the complexities of the project at hand. :yeah: Hee hee.

Hmm, well I usually just use the skill saw for cutting SMALL holes for electrical and such. The actual plan is to leave the lath. It's such a huge mess with the lath attached :sick: I probably don't really need to leave it up, but I'm figuring since I'm removing the plaster from it separately what the hay. Can't hurt to have a bit of extra sturdiness and insulation on interior wall. Lath is holding in blown in insulation on exterior wall.

It's coming down ok I guess. Found that once I get a starting point a prybar slid down the back side works pretty good. Oh yes definitely need the personal protective gear: goggles, gloves, dust mask, sturdy shoes, long sleeves... Duct taped 3 mil to doorway (while it's still there :)). It's a pretty good walk down to the trash but I'm only hauling it out at about 25# per trip. Thank goodness we have one of those automated trash picker-upper systems here. I've used some of the debris to fill a hole that seems to keep reopening by the seawall too; I've dumped at least 100# of stuff in there so far :).

Here's a couple yesterday's 'Demo: Day 2". I took these before the plumber (next door neighbor) came over at 11pm to disconnect the tub and share a beer :)

03-18-2005, 05:50 AM
Not too much happened yesterday. Like I said, the neighbor came by Wednesday night to remove the tub. I removed the stud wall that was build to house the tub plumbing (which is still there as you can see). He was suppose to work a half day yesterday (go figure) and come over but that's ok... not like he's not far away!. So I also got the rest of the plaster and lath off the back wall. Glad I didn't use the skill saw after I started getting into the wall I found wiring for the wall sconses that were apparently plastered over :crazy: that would not have been good!

Today there will be some REAL progress :yeah:. Can I really call this progress? Extreme demo is more like it! :eek:

03-18-2005, 10:29 AM
If you don't want that pedistal sink, I'll take it! :)

03-18-2005, 11:08 AM
Ugh. Maybe I should show a close up of that sink.... it's quite a mess even before plaster got dropped in it :D. The enamal is worn away and it's rusty and just gross in one spot. It was gross 15 years ago and I used that ceramic paint stuff which was of course was only a cosmetic fix and it has since cracked and peeled away. I suppose it might be worth something to somebody, but I can't think of anything to use it for except maybe a planter in the backyard :). Hmm, maybe I can start my own outside bath collection back there by the tub! :crazy:

It's free to anyone that want to come get it just PM me with a date and time. I have a free tub that's only been installed and never used too! I'm serious!

03-19-2005, 07:42 AM
Yesterday's demo. Hey, you guys said you like pics! Hope I'm not over-doing it :p

Here's a couple pics with everything removed. The PLAN was to move the doorway over a bit to allow for a deeper shower. However, this will require moving the clump of old knob and tube wires over as well (see pic). Won't know what kind of access we'll have until we cut a hole in the bathroom floor by the wires.

Hubby is now thinking it would be easier to leave door where it is :rolleyes:. Eh, nothin a a sheet or two of drywall can't patch up! :twitch:

Pulled up some attic floor boardstoo to check accessability for combo ceiling light/exhaust fan and that all looks good. Won't make hole for unit until the ceiling has been capped.

The floor is a complete disaster IMO :eek: :eek: . The oak floor boards appear to be pretty warped where the toilet was and there are quite a few patch jobs too. There appears to be a hump of cement under God knows how many layers of old linoleum there are by the wall where the old claw tub used to be. With all the floor distruction that's going on and warpiness I'm sure 3/4 ply will be in order. Plumber john says that we should remove just the oak floor boards and leave the subfloor (providing the subfloor isn't warped too); but since it's like a patch-work quilt under there I'm thinking it will all need to come up and then put down the ply plus too there's the height difference factor. I'll let ya know what I find under the oak. Plumber John also says we don't need a vapor barrier... but I know better because of this great forum!

John, the plumber, will come over in a few days I guess to help with getting the new plumbing in. Again, I need to cut a hole by the sink wall and look for a chase which John says should be there.

Today I'm going to pick up the pocket door. Then it's a trip to Lowe's for drywall and 2x4's. After I have the pocket door frame I'll know exactly what I need to do to the wall it goes in. I think.

The pile of bathroom fixtures is growin too! :o

03-19-2005, 09:40 AM
Ugh. Maybe I should show a close up of that sink.... it's quite a mess even before plaster got dropped in it :D. The enamal is worn away and it's rusty and just gross in one spot. It was gross 15 years ago and I used that ceramic paint stuff which was of course was only a cosmetic fix and it has since cracked and peeled away. I suppose it might be worth something to somebody, but I can't think of anything to use it for except maybe a planter in the backyard :). Hmm, maybe I can start my own outside bath collection back there by the tub! :crazy:

It's free to anyone that want to come get it just PM me with a date and time. I have a free tub that's only been installed and never used too! I'm serious!
If you were closer, I would be over today!
Well, my search goes on.

03-19-2005, 11:40 AM
Yeah, I figured the distance thing might be a wee factor! :crazy:

Do you all remember the post about pocket doors? Bob (rmoff) mentioned a spring that would assist the door upon opening. My question is how do you figure he keeps the door in the wall when it's open? It would have to have some sort of catch. Here's the link to that thread. (

I'm at a loss to figure out how to use the old hardware and to be honest with you don't really want to destroy a piece trying to get it modified to fit inside the pocket door opening so I'm purchasing a 4 panel oak door from Lowe's and will stain it like the old wood in the house. If I can't figure out the spring thing I guess I'll try to find some suitable pull for the door.

:bow: Thank you for addressing this again :bow:

03-19-2005, 02:26 PM
If I understood the "spring thing" correctly, the spring is positioned so that it is not compressed when the door is fully open. The door is pressed past fully open into the pocket to compress the spring and then released. The door then pops out partially into the opening. All this presumes, of course, that the pccket and the track are deep enough to allow the door to go farther into the wall than fully open.

03-19-2005, 05:58 PM
Marni -

Got your message. Jeff's right on the mark. My pocket doors have ~0.75" to 1" clearance between the door and frame when the door is fully open and the visible edge of the door is flush with the door trim. I thought about a catch for the door - one of those push to latch, push to release thingys that you often see on glass door stereo/TV cabinets - but decided I didn't need it and would have had difficulty implementing since I didn't think of it until afer the door and wall were completed. Probably would work though. As for the door staying put when you open it - I kinda cheated a little. I discovered that a slight lowering of the door track at the rear of the pocket would cause the door to slide open on its own when it was within a few inches of the full open position. I lowered the rear of the track by putting a few washers between the top of the track and its mount. Sorry - no pics available. Hope this helps.


03-20-2005, 03:04 AM
Oh ok, I see now. Thanks for clearing that up Bob and Jeff! Nice picture too by the way! :dance:

03-21-2005, 08:39 AM
Jeff, I picked up two 1" springs yesterday at the local hardware store. I'm thinking 2 will give a little more zing for the 50-some pound door. I'm thinking I'll affix them to the back stop like you did with the bored hole and Gorilla Glue about in the middle and about 2' apart. Sound good? Dang I don't like the finger pulls they sold at HD, Lowes or the hardware store; maybe a locksmith would have a better selection or know of somewhere that does.

Got a chance to edumacate a shopper at the Lowe's store a bit about cutting/snapping, wall tile vs floor tile classifications. Told em all about tile and deflection and not to use the bucket of thinset or Edge too. Handed them the JB forum link too :)

Now the BEEF of the post:

Yesterday I pulled up the t&g 2" floor and the lino. As I did, I spouted short phrases like "oof", "oh my", "what the...", and "holy cow". This is by far the worst looking anything I've seen in this house!

Ok to get to the point. The floor is a MESS! The fixtures must have been leaking for some time to cause the t&g subfloor planks to be as rotted as they are. There are even water marks going up about 1" on the wall studs. I think there's only one floor joist (by the toilet) that looks like it could use some help due to water damage. It's not rotten, just doesn't look great. Even though the ceilings under are tile (in the bath) and a closet in the next room, I can't believe there was never a sign of leaking! :uhh:

The joists are not exactly even distances from each other either. From left to right on center and from wall to wall they are: 24, 9, 15.5, 15.5, 17, and 17. They are all 9"x10' on a balloon frame style house. I ran the deflecto and it was ok, but I wasn't really sure what scenario I should plug in because of the distance variances, but even at 20" apart I appear to be in good shape. I used unknown as well as knotty (though the joists aren't). I was trying to get to a "worst case scenario" and see if the deflecto would fail; but thank goodness it didn't!!!

SOOOO, I'll remove the subfloor and replace with subflooring. I'm sure these Q's have been answered a million times. But let me put down the questions and what I think I know...

1) What should I put down for subflooring directly on the joists?

[My thoughts: If you say 2 layers of ply I will attach 1st layer screwed to joists and 2nd layer screwed to 1st layer but not screwed through to joists. Using appropriate deck screws and at 8" in field and 6" on edges. Also the plywood goes down with it's grain perpendicular to the joists while preferrably overlapping at least 3 joists per piece. Predrill holes to get a good grip and avoid "jacking" (what ever that is). Screw from center out to flatten it evenly as I go.]
1a) What's the best way to cut out the subfloor ends to remove since they extend under the walls and into the adjacent rooms? I can't come up with anything solution that won't leave a perimeter which means that the new subfloor needs to match the 3/4" thickness of the old stuff.

1b) Is it a good idea to glue subfloor to joists? But not to glue top layer to bottom? [My thoughts: Glue subfloor to joists which will secure it more and prevent sqeeking. But don't glue top layer to bottom because we don't want the top to 'move' with the joists but rather the layer under it. It creates more 'float' for the top layer that the tile will go on.]
1c) I read a thread somewhere saying to let the end joints fall about 4" past a joist. Is that true? [My thoughts: So that basically means it's not a good idea to but the ends on the joists itself which in turn means you can't screw the edges into the joists either. I'd have to assume that the reason for the overhang is so that when the joists move the edges of each piece of ply doesn't move against the other and rather sort of floats.]

THE JOISTS: I've included a couple pictures of problem areas. Once all the subflooring is removed I will/should be able to sister in 6' pieces using glue and bolts.

2) What kind of glue for old dirty joists? I'm thinking liquid nails.

3) My joists are 9" high. Is that the height of a 2x10 in todays measurements? And if not can I use a 2x8?

4) As in picture showing the 2 holes for one pipe (:confused:), should I use the appropriate height board (that you say in previous question) and notch around the pipe or just use a height that will come up to the hole. (I'm guessin the first option)

5) For the 24" span between joists there are lots of pipes under there which I'm sure is why there is no joist. I should use braces/block? Straight across where I can and/or tress type? What spacing do you think would be good? Not sure as of yet what I can actually add in that space yet.

6) In the picture you see a red X over a joist. That indicates about where I think the shower drain should be. But of course being in a joist is no good. Assuming that cutting the joist for it would also be no good, I'll have to locate it somewhere else that is not centered :(. I'm thinking I'll move it back so that it's between the joists as in the picture with the bullseye. Since relocating it won't affect it's function because the mud will still slant toward it, I'm looking for that professional opinion on what would look better?

I put this picture together too as to where we're thinking the stuff will go. Does it look crammed in there? The linen closet will be indented by a couple inches between the shower wall and the pocket door and tile will wrap around from inside the shower to the linen cabinet (as well as to the wall on the other side). Where the toilet flange (pipe?) is now is not quite centered between the wall and vanity, but only off by about an inch and I'm sure John (the plumber) can get the old Sloan plumbing aligned to fit a 2 piece toilet.

I have one other question regarding tile. I've read that for a DIYer that 4" tile is not so easy to do on a shower floor because of slope. 4" was original pick, but I found a 2" that will do as well as a 3". Any words of wisdom on this?

As always, I appreciate all input and again sorry this is long. I'm trying to ask them all at once per topic rather than buggin ya's as questions pop into my head! :bow: :o :bow:

03-21-2005, 08:50 AM
Oh oh, just 1 more question (I swear)... What's that green stuff that I show a picture of? It reminds me of hardened Play-Doh :). It was used to build up under where the claw tub sat. I pulled it all up now, but since I've never seen anything like it (especially the color) I'm curious!

And another pic of the '2 holes' cause the first didn't show it too well. (don't want ya to be confused ;))

03-21-2005, 09:07 AM
Hi, Marni!

1) If you have the height to work with, then 2 layers of plywood would make an excellant floor. Bottom layer 3/4" and the top 1/2"

1a) You can use a toe-kick saw. Devote your entire attention to it, as this is a pretty mean tool. You can also use a recipicating saw (Sawzall) and angle on towards the wall. Leaving a border is not a bad thing, you can use it to add a 2x4 ledger (slip a length of 2x4 half way under the old wood and screw through the old flooring in to the 2x4) to supports the edge of your new plywood.

1b) Yes, glue the subfloor to the joist using construction adhesive. Liquid nails will work. You can glue your plywood together if a) you are not installing natural stone, b) you are not using Ditra, and c) you use a spreadable liquid glue, like Titebond.

1c) That applies to the top layer. Your bottom layer edges must land on a joist.

2) See 1b.

3) 2x10s are 9.25". You can rip a 2x10 down to your dimension. I understood your joists were OK by the Deflectometer, so if you are just trying to level the floor, or you are adding insurance, then 2x8s will work.

4) Notch. :)

5) If the majority of that joist bay is empty, then install a header (doubled 2x8s) between the existing joists and then install a new joist on the header. Otherwise, install blocking every 16 inches.

6) I think your drain will work in the joist bay closer to your proposed shower door..

Use the 2x2 tiles on the shower floor, especially if you end up installing the drain way off center.

BTW, did I say "Welcome Back"?

03-21-2005, 09:23 AM
DANG you're fast! Took me all morning to put them questions down!

Thanks for the precise answers too! :dance: Sometimes I think I got and then I don't and then.... well, you get my point! Don't know if I can handle the toe-kick saw though cause I had enough trouble grippin and mixin the thinset for the last project.

I ain't gone no-where's, Bob... jus' re-identified :shades: (and trying to stay level-headed through 'my thing' ;))

Richard S
03-21-2005, 09:44 AM
Regarding the shower niches, just do a search on "shower niches". A whole bunch of threads will come up. There are some good threads on this that I've read. After reading the threads, I decided on the Proform shower niche. Word of caution - get it way ahead of time. They can take 3-5 business days to ship & then it's UPS ground. It's now the bottleneck holding up my project. I decided against the Duc Liner as it's plastic & against the Bonsai niches as it appeared they had rounded edges and I didn't want that look.

Hope that helps,

03-21-2005, 12:16 PM
Thanks for the reply Richard. Gee that question must have been a while back ;) and yes, it has sort of slipped my mind with all the other stuff going on. I do have some ideas on what I want it to be and how I want it to 'perform', but I want it tiled like the walls so I'm sure I'll have to make my own. And heck I figure if I can build, mud, Kerdi, Tile and grout I can certainly create and install a simple waterproof sqare in there too :D Notice I didn't say plumbing? I leave THAT to the neighbor cause he's good at the piping stuff. I suppose I should elaborate on my idea. (Get the popcorn here she goes again! :D :laugh2: :crazy:

I really hate shampoo bottles. Gotta turn em upside down and shake em, the stuff goes flyin out sometimes. Shake shake shake. They sometimes fall off the shelf when ya set em down. Gotta move em everytime you clean. Plus the always look cluttered! Mix matched colors and sizes and all. Now in the downstairs bath we hooked one of them dispensers :yeah:. I had a different one that had been installed for at least 10 years and just replaced it with this one. Works great! No clutter, no shaking, no mess, easy to fill and easy to clean around. (Here's a pic).

Now of course being a NEW shower I'm not gonna want to go gluing (sp? glue+ing) ANYTHING to my new baby! Plus if it breaks, I certainly won't want to have to pry it off (they stick real good). So I'm thinking if I make my own niche at the appropriate size and tile it like usual and all and also make a piece/board thing that would fit inside the back wall of the niche (probably have to use bullnoe edges to make it look good) and if I had suction cups hooked up the back of this false back thing I could attach my soap/lotion/shampoo thing to the FALSE thing and stick it in the niche with the suction cups! Brilliant! Ok, well, maybe not really and it might not even work. Now if I can just figure out something for the shave cream and razor :uhh: I gotta go to their website and see what other products they sell. Open to suggestions here! Interested in folks solution to where ya put the squeegee too since I don't have one of them downstairs. And of course you can tell me why you think this is NOT a good idea too.

What's wrong with brown? Hee hee hee...

03-21-2005, 02:11 PM
Hi Marni -- question for you, since you seem to be in the thick of it (and clearly don't have anything better to do than answer my silly questions! :) )...

What shape is your shower pan and what have you decided about your glass door/wall? How do you fasten it to the tile on the walls/curb?

I'm in "design-phase" and am looking at a neo-angle pan with a glass enclosure -- trying to puzzle out the details...

Thanks! Looks great so far -- fine demolition you got there. I'll probably be back for pocket door advice, since I'm in the same boat there, too...


03-21-2005, 02:54 PM

Here's another (much easier) option:

1. Install a thin stainless steel rod across the front of, and about 1" from the bottom of, the niche. I would embed it in the inside of the niche, so it looks like it belongs there. That will keep stuff from sliding and falling out all the time.

2. Purchase nice plastic or plexi-glass bottles from a place like Bed, Bath, and Beyond, and empty your products into those. That way you can avoid those dreaded "unmatched" bottles.

If those are your biggest problems, you need a new project. :D


03-21-2005, 04:14 PM
Just payin attention to the detail Lou :twitch: Sigh, yeah I know, the little plastic bottles are nice too, but such a pain in the doofus to fill! I get what you're puttin down though about the bar too. That's an idea to consider. Great, now ya got me thinkin about it again. :crap: :crazy: :crap:

Um yeah, I'm still finishing up with the last project. Gave it 2 weeks to cure and started sealing it today. Still have to touch up the ceiling molding (painted before I put it up), one more coat of poly on one side of the doors, clean all the stain off the door windows, re-install the hardware, and apply a cement stain to the brick joints to even out the color, and poly and install the shoe molding where the wood walls are. It's gettin there though!

Marcus, Happy to answer them if I can :uhh:.

Well. As you can see in post #41 of my "big adventure", I don't have a pan yet :crazy:. I'm thinkin I'm going square though. I like the corner look too. I kept drawing on the layers of subflooring different designs, but without much room and desperate need for linen space in the small bath I think square will have to do. I can still change my mind though--- cause I'm a woman and well, that's what we do :D

Anyway on to your door dilema. You have a neo pan? Is that the square design with one corner lopped off? You are looking at the euro door style? Those are the really cool ones that I keep seeing that don't have a frame at all right? I wanted one of those until I stopped at a glass door place and saw a waiver on every one that you have to sign that basically says "I understand that by installing a euro door that it is not waterproof". That was enough for me to decide to go with a semi framed door. Semi framed basically means that there is a frame system on the top, bottom, and sides, but the glass door itself has no frame. Granted the glass door will most likely be shut 99.5% of the time, but it's a nicer look for that .5% it's open! :rolleyes: Also, with a semi frameless you reduce the overall amount of metal on the outside too which give a sleeker appearance. I'd love to go euro, but I really don't want to take the chance that I'll have to mop the floor after every shower :crazy: (left that open for some contradiction :)).


Ok, so to install it? I'd do it my/ourselves, but this is something that the hubby wants to have installed. So even though I've done most of the footwork, I've given him most of the information he needs to order it (I keep him just slightly in the dark in case I change my mind on what I want ;)). He's also in charge of ordering the linen cabinet, vanity, sink, and toilet. (He's better at ordering it and I'm better at installin it!) Basically he's my orderer, rough in helper, eyeballer, and sometimes PITA and I'm the demo crew, carpenter, installer, detail person and his PITA. Oh don't worry, I'll be eyeballing then door install too :suspect:.

BUT, there is help out there. In fact at the Wilson site they have a pretty nice "how to install a simple door" ( page. It's a fine site and the folks that run it seem to be good people that want to sell a good product (at least that's the feeling I got via my cpu). There's a lot of information there regarding different types of hinges and stuff too. It's worth taking a look at their quick explanation of hinges vs. pivots ( I am going to go and check out the Basco product at one of the local places too. Here's a link ( to a Basco semi-frameless door that looks nice. Here's a BobVilla link ( with a short movie of a guy installing a door. The movie doesn't really SHOW much, but does have some info and it's fun to have someone tell you the story rather than reading it all the time. And there's the DIY Network (,2037,DIY_13954_2988251,00.html). There's info on door typeslike this one ( and basic lingo like this ( one. And of course with all good things there are bad ( Anyway, you get my point. Ultimately you're the one that has to live with it. You can always do a Google search and come up with tons of links to find what you want. Currently we're looking at getting a door from the HD Expo folks that's reasonably priced including installation for a door that we both like enough to look at for the next ?? years. Of course this is all subject to change. I would definitely recommend taking an afternoon or evening and stopping by a couple glass shower door shops to get a better idea of what they look like in person even if it's not the company you wind up purchasing from.

Ain't ya glad ya asked! :crazy:

03-21-2005, 04:26 PM
:laugh2: Thanks Marni! Good glory, that's all kinds of information -- you've helped me put off work for another 20 minutes, at least.

I'm still coming to terms with my vocabulary, but yes the neo angle is the lopped square. We haven't talked specifics about the type of glass door yet, but we'd probably do the semi-frameless to avoid the chance of mopping. I plan on installing it myself, but it sure do look easy from the office chair, when the current bath/shower is still in and leak-free. We'll see what happens when we get there -- pulled up the carpet(!) in the bath this weekend, to commit to the project as a whole. Demo to come, and I'll start my own "big adventure" thread then, so as not to co-opt yours...

Thanks again! Off to watch Bob Villa movies :)

03-21-2005, 09:40 PM
Yeah, it helps to bookmark and categorize everything or else you'll never find it again! :D

Anytime I can help delay your work :o

03-22-2005, 01:34 PM
:crap: I gotta tell ya... doing the shower will be a breeze next to figuring out a shampoo, lotion, conditioner dispenser system that not only looks nice, but is functional!

Anyone want to make a million bucks? Manufacture a pump dispenser with a WIDE MOUTH. One that when you fill it up you don't glop the product all over the place. I don't understand why they're aren't any. It's such a simple solution to a slow and messy process.

I actually do have a single lotion dispenser here that the whole top comes off. It's still not a perfect design for a shower though because it's kind of top heavy, round, and squat. It's the only one I've ever seen like it! Black and white were the only 2 colors too. I'd drive 100+ miles to buy a dispenser I like! (or just pay for shipping :o) Here's a picher! I like pichers :) :) :)

I guess it's the simplicity of the solution that drives me nuts! Bout right now ya'll doin that "Aaaaallll righty-then" thing :suspect:

PS. On the other project I'm done sealing the grout (3 applications), touched up the ceiling molding, and done polyurethaning the shoe molding. This led me into researching the best way to store polyurethane since mine was already skinned over after sitting for only a bit over one month. I TRIED cutting out the subfloor with the recip saw in the new project, but that no go so well. I was trying the circular saw, but the Skill Saw didn't like the wood or else it's a woosie. I pulled out the Makita circular and will give it another try in a little bit. BOB didn't seem to worried about a perimeter and I guess so long as the old is even with the new in the end is all that will really matter. JUST in case you wondered if I had nothing better to do :yeah:. LOL

03-23-2005, 01:07 AM
Marni --

Pocket door: You confused me with Bob. He's the one who came up with the spring idea, I just told you what he did.

Jacking: When you stop at a light in a bad neighborhood in your new sports car.... Actually, when you screw two pieces of wood together without drilling a clearance hole (a hole slightly larger than the screw threads), the screw threads can bit in the top layer of wood. Then, when the screw hits the second layer, if the screw does not immediately bite into the wood, the turning screw will lift (jack) the upper piece of wood away from the lower. When the screw does bite, it will enter the lower piece with a space between the two pieces of wood. This space may not close up when the screw is driven home, because the screw is threaded into both pieces of wood. Drilling a clearance hole in the upper piece of wood avoids this problem.

Dispensers: I use a simple and cheap system. Clear liquid soap bottles with the labels removed. They're uniform, cheap, and come with dispenser pumps. And did I say cheap? As for your false-backed niche, moisture will get between the false back and the real back, and all kinds of stuff will make a home in your new shower, Not a good idea.

03-23-2005, 02:06 AM
Ahhh, but you replied as well to the pocket door inquiry... this is good! :)

:rofl: Oh yeah, I've had that happen on a number of occassions. The wood thing, not the car. I never knew it had a 'term'!

Yep, I thought of that too for the dispenser. I certainly don't want grungies growing in there either! YIKES! And yes, cheap is real good... but functional :D

Up late? Or earlier riser too?

03-23-2005, 02:15 AM
I'm a night owl. The only time I see 6 AM is if it is part of the night before.

03-23-2005, 06:21 AM
Eek, Got all the t&g subfloor up. Now not to do something dumb and screw this up.... Hubby is saying that there's a "standard subflooring" material and I really don't know what he's talking about. Something cheaper I suppose. I was planning on just getting "c" or better quality plywood, but most likely "C" since it would probably be cheaper and do the job just as well?

My total depth I can build up from the joists until I reach the same height of the existing floor outside bathroom is 1 13/16 [3/4" t&g subfloor which I removed + existing flooring height of 1 1/16"]. Seeing as how the tile + thinset will really only by 1/2" that leaves me with needing to make up another 1 3/8" in subflooring and durock just to meet the height of the floor outside the bath.


1) For transitional purposes wouldn't I want the new bath floor to be slightly higher then the old floor?

2) What materials would you recommend I put down and what thickness of each? I ask cause I'm confused on thickness of Durock and if I'm using Durock do I need 2 pieces or subflooring in addition.

3) Yes or No. It won't make a difference if I use 1/4 Durock or 1/2" on the floor?

Also, just so I don't shoot myself in the foot later, I'm not going to glue the 2 subfloors together, but was (4) wondering if I should use a paper type material like that which was between the original subfloors? If yes, what the heck is the material?

Read a post in which Sonney Layne (butchered his name I'm sure) says not to use deck screws. Can't find it again now and my notes are a little sketchy on this. I think he was just talking about (5) not using deck screws for the cbu and using hot-dipped galvanized screws instead, yes?

I hope the colors aren't bothersome. I try to make it easier to pick out the questions through all my rambling.

I know Bob was nice enough to already address part of this, but now that I have the whole floor up it's kind of worrysome. There's not much room in that 24" span to add extra strengthening, but then again hasn't been nothin in there for lots and lots of years! :o

Was going to post the above yesterday, but figured I'd wait until I got some "ledgers" in this morning.

Bob, (or someone) I assume this is what you meant by a ledger? Still have to work out the left side by the waste pipe, but I'll wait till plumber gets in there so I don't cramp him at all. I started out with the SawZall, but wound up using the circular saw for the edges (the SkilSaw worked fine with a Dewalt blade). I did however make a little boo boo. The long skinny picture there shows where I made my cut off center of the joist. Since I didn't want to leave the subflooring to the next room with no support at all I managed to make a larger hole and slide some 14" 2x4's in there. You can sort of see how I did it with the hooks that are attached to that last piece I gotta screw in yet. (The cordless drill died). I put five 3" screws in a staggered up and down pattern through the joist into each one of the 14" 2x4's. Do you think I should do anything else to brace the subflooring on the other side? Can't really get in there too well as you can see the tight space.

:bow: :bow: :bow:
Thanks again!

03-23-2005, 06:53 AM
1) I think most people expect the tile floor to be slightly higher. Most DIYers are trying for even.

2) Always use more plywood and less backerboard. 1/4" durock is fine. That leaves you about 1-1/16" to 1-1/8" to make up. Start with 3/4" CC (plugged and sanded) Exterior grade plywood OR 3/4" Exposure 1 OSB. Overlay that with 3/8" BC or CC (plugged and sanded) Exterior grade plywood. Those are nominal dimensions, the actual dimensions will be about 1/32" less, so your subfloor will be 1-1/16" thick. (CX will come along and recommend 1/2" for the overlay. He doesn't like 3/8" plywood. He's funny that way. He'll also tell you that making a tapered transition piece for your doorway is easy and doable for the DIYer. He'll be right, of course. :D)

3) See 2.

4) Don't put any paper or roofing felt between the plywood layers. Glue is optional, but if you do use it, use a carpenter's glue like Titebond or Elmers. Construction adhesive may leave ridges that will create voids. You are trying to avoid installing voids under your tile.

5) Deck screws are OK for plywood, but not CBU. Use CBU screws for that.

Looking at the skinny picher, I think you are on the right track. You can screw through the sill plate into the subfloor planks that are cut flush.

Looking at the 24 inch joist bay, I think blocking will be your only option. even then, your blocking will be heavilly notched. You don't have a lot of options. The good news is you have plenty of subfloor.

03-23-2005, 10:14 AM
Thanks Bob. Again! Will probably go pick up the floor supplies later today or tomorrow... I'll need the hubby for that task :whip:

I truly appreciate all your help in answering my questions and helping me do it the right way.

:bow: .
:bow: again.
:bow: and again.

03-29-2005, 11:38 AM
:bang: :bang: :bang: Now that that's over with.

I got the 3/4 OSB and am wondering about orientation. Does OSB even have orientation? And what about the t&g? Do I have to use the t&g or can I just cut it off? Now is it the OSB that needs 1/8" gap because it expands more than plywood or should the edges be butted next to each other.

When I picked up the OSB I got some plywood too. 3/8". A nice man picked out what I needed and I questioned him if it was exterior grade and all that info that I knew, and he seemed to indicate that the 3/8" he helped me load on my cart was what I described (also making me feel it was the only 3/8" they had too). HD's sticker on it rung it up wrong and they charged me for 3/4" plywood. Of course I didn't catch it, but the hubby did. When getting it all straightened out they used a sku for 3/8" RTD SHTG, but it also said CDX. How do I tell if I even bought the right stuff?

I feel so stupid sometimes....
Thanks for any help.

03-29-2005, 12:30 PM
OSB has no orientation, so place it to your advantage. Save the T&G, or you'll have to add blocking to support the edges. Both plywood and OSB need the 1/8" gap. On T&G, you don't drive the sheets tightly together, but enough so there is only a 1/8" gap at the surface.

Here's what you should be looking for on your plywood (except yours will be B-C or C-C):

03-29-2005, 02:04 PM
Umm, I don't see any letters like that. Here's a picture of what I got. Only thing I could really match up was 'exterior' and I assume the '1' next to it is the group #. Sorry to ask again about this, but I don't see any BC CC or even CD numbers :confused:

Off to figure out how to move the OSB so I can cut it.

Hope you know something about shower buildin, Bob, else I'm in trouble! Thanks again :o

PS. Added a picture of another sheet that shows the knots that appear on one side only of each piece.

03-29-2005, 02:59 PM
That is equal to CDX. You need to take it back. Sorry.

03-30-2005, 07:10 AM
Best to know now. Thanks Bob.

03-30-2005, 11:17 PM
Made some progress today after all! Got the pocket door and wall framed in. I didn't put do it though I had planned on it and wanted to. A friend of ours, Chuck, who's a all around good handy-man did all the work. Anyhow, it looks great except for putting the door in upside down. :crazy: Oh well, these things happen! It looks like an easy fix.

It's a Stanley frame and track. The track is a "C" track and the 2 wheel hangers have 4 wheels each. Chuck says it's a fine track, which is good to know.

Haven't hooked up the spring system yet, most likely will do that tomorrow as well as remove the door so it doesn't get messed up during the rest of the construction process.

03-31-2005, 11:01 AM
Looks like the whole house shakes when you slam that pocket door!

Ha! Nice work -- I'm still taking notes... Where'd you get the door?

03-31-2005, 01:45 PM
Marni --

You figured out how to motorize the door! Amazing.

Looks good.

03-31-2005, 01:55 PM
Just don't stand in the way when it closes! :D

03-31-2005, 02:02 PM
She's not Maxwell Smart!

03-31-2005, 02:12 PM
Missed by THAT much!

03-31-2005, 02:40 PM

04-01-2005, 02:35 PM
Wired the door to work off a Star Trek com pin I picked up last year, but haven't hooked up the swoosh sound system to it yet. Decided to save the Clapper I bought on Ebay for the toilet :yeah:

Trust me, the house IS shaking! Just not from the door :)

Oh yeah, and the door isn't upside down :crazy:

Dang Marcus, wish I had installed the door myself to give you some pointers. I can tell you NOT to buy a 2 roller wheel hanger and NOT to buy a "J" track which I would guess by design is only sold with the 2 roller system anyway. Can also say the Chuck, the installer, said that the most common place where they malfunction is at the very back (inside wall - yes, the far and impossible spot to reach when finished) where the track is attached to the header; so you want to secure that spot extra good. Oh and just so you don't yell out "DOH", when you get around to screwin up the drywall around it, make sure you don't use too long of screws that will secure the door along with the drywall! If you want pictures of the installation or a description of how he did it I'll be happy to help ya out.

Door specs:

The Stanley 4-roller "C" track pocket door frame was ordered from our local wood shop. The packaging describes the frame as 1750 series 2/6 for 62x84 rough opening. Also has 54412 on box what ever that is. And the hardware instruction sheet says it's PD150N/760 Pocket Frame Hardware for up to 150 lbs.

The door is 30"x80", 4-panel, solid oak which was custom ordered from Home Depot. It's a beautiful door. The door cost was $223 with tax and the frame was around $80 I think. I know the frame was more expensive that the HD one, but way better looking. Never checked out Lowes pocket door frames.
Now to investigate finger pulls. Hmm.

Rambling on...

Returned the CDX plywood today. Had to chuckle cause the return desk woman knew more about plywood than the guy working in the lumber dept when I bought it :) Anyway, we got the right stuff this time and picked up the greenboard to do the ceiling as well.

Plumber, neighbor, suppose to come today, but even a fridge full of beer ain't gonna make it happen so I guess he'll be here tomorrow morning. He's going to do the "circ system" we've been talking about putting in while he's here too. For the bathroom, we're using a 'chase' that runs from the upstairs bath to the basement to run new plumbing since the old is the rusty galvonized stuff.

I hope to get the plumbing done, joists braced/sistered/blocked, plywood down, ceiling up, the shower framed, and greenboard up on all walls in entire bath over the next 2 weeks. All that might not happen, but that's a goal! :eek: We're doing all walls and ceiling in greenboard and using Kerdi. I wonder, can I greenboard the back and side of the shower walls before I build what will be the new framing for the shower? Seems it would be easier to greenboard it first since there would be less cutting involved. Or is that more a matter of choice?

04-01-2005, 06:11 PM
Hi Marnie :)

We usually frame first. I've seen it done both ways. Either way, make sure you have the necessary blocking installed for your partition walls.

04-02-2005, 02:48 AM
WOW, that was a PITA!!!! Talk about a tight fit.:eek: I used joist hangers and secured it with screws under the wall and joist nails on the other side. I hope that was the most difficult one! Of course the joists weren't perfectly square either. :twitch:

Is that called an "I" joist?

04-02-2005, 07:22 AM
No, that's called blocking. I-joists are an engineered wood product that looks like an I beam, but made of wood.

04-02-2005, 10:11 AM
Hee hee. Well hey at least it looks good and is sturdy even though I don't know what it's called :) Got a piece up under that edge there too to support the very edge of the subflooring and worked on a bracing system for around the terlit too.

Edited cause I had a Kerdi drain ?? but we're not going to secure all the piping there until I get the drain. It's all good :dance:

04-04-2005, 08:39 AM
Well, I'm getting the hang of this "blocking" thing but I'm in a bit of a quandry as to how to do this next part. I sat dangling my legs in the joists for a while trying to wrap my brain around it and decided it was time to ask the pros!

There will be a 36"x18" vanity and sink installed against the hall wall. I already blocked and braced the heck out of the toilet area :D. There's hardly any room under there to put anything in and with the 6-8.5"+" distance to reach under to get to that other joist. The two 2x4s that are holding up the water supply are sturdy, but not secured with joist hangers. Plumber screwed them in for me thus the unsquaredness. :rolleyes: The 2x8 is real secure though. All blocking will have to be notched to go over the pipes. I have about 2.5" between the pipes and the top of the joists. Which is sturdier?.... a 2x4 with 1" notched out of the bottom or a 2x6 with 3" notched out of the bottom? I guess that would depend on the span too. Ugh. :bang:

On the left I think the best approach is running the brace/block thing under the old subfloor and securing it down through the top of the exposed sill (?) plate of the wall to the hallway then the other end to the 2x4 where the plumbing is. Would a 2x6 be better to do that with? I'm thinking that because it would attach to a 2x4 it would not make a difference plus it's being secured from above only. There's not enough room under there to add a 2x6 blocking brace or I'd do that. Than add that other brace thing coming off the old joist.

The rest is a mess :crazy: . I tried making my drawing as accurate as I could. Again do you think I should use all 2x6 even though one edge meets a 2x4? I'm thinking I should put 2 blockers between the joists because of the notching. I'd rather just do one 2x6 or 2x8 in the central most part I can get it, but I fear it would look like a comb by the time I was done notchin it. :sick: Would it be enough? I'd have less notches if I used one 2x6 or 8 where I indicated, but that still leaves a large fairly unsupported area.

I dunno, :confused: I dunno, :confused: I dunnooooooo..... help??? :bow: :cry:

[edited to reduce picture size]

04-04-2005, 08:52 AM
While I'm thinking about it... Would these blockers needed to be avoided like the real joists when screwing the plywood to the OSB?

04-04-2005, 02:25 PM
Ok, so this is probably getting boring. Am I boring you? Here's some pictures of the blocking which is done except for 3 that will be under the shower, but they are already cut. I'll secure those after plumber finishes up the waste pipe area. Wanted to beef up the shower area and the toilet. Especially the toilet since there was hardly any support to begin with.

I decided to go with a double wide 2x4 in the middle of the 30" span (as pichured above) and the rest was about the same I guess. I hope it's good enough. :uhh: I figured out that I started the blocking wrong and even though it was just on the edges it wasn't what Bob was talkin about so I put down another 2x4 along the edges but vertically this time :nod:... DOH! Sometimes you have to live with things you do wrong and just go on.

Thank goodness I don't have to reach under that edge again with a drill anymore!! WHEW! :laugh2:

But do I need to avoid these blockers like for the joists when screwing the plywood to the OSB?

04-04-2005, 07:52 PM
Hi Marni :)

If you use 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" ring shank nails, it won't be an issue.

John Bridge
04-04-2005, 07:58 PM

The only thing you need to protect is the piping if it's close to the surface. I wouldn't aim for the blocks, but if you hit them it's no big deal.

Very nice, neat work, by the way. ;)

04-05-2005, 01:33 AM
John K, are you suggesting using ring shank nails rather than screws for the top layer of plywood? While I'm sure the rings will grip better than regular nails I feel more confident in the longevity of screws. Can you give a quick explanation?

JB, other than the waste pipe which isn't in yet, I think I shouldn't have a problem with the copper pipes, but I'll take another look when I pull the OSB layer up again. Can you suggest a way to protect the wires next to the joist in the picture below though? I'll use one of those metal plate protectors on top of the joist and I got pretty good aim, but one slip to the side of the joist with the drill and it's dzzzzzzzzzzzt... fried shutterbug! :sick:

Another question while I'm here; can anyone suggest a rough carpentry reference site for building the shower walls? I've found bits and pieces of pictures and stuff, but I'd rather not guesstimate. I'd like to know the exact dimensions from the existing studs that the drain should be for a 40" deep space using Kerdi over CBU because don't you have to shim out the CBU to go over the mud pan. Yes, CBU cause I'm :sheep: (what, no chicken smiley? :D ) I'm still re-reading TYW book and am trying to put the different sections together in my head (scary thought!) to make one total plan.

04-05-2005, 05:48 AM
Hi Marni :)

Screws will also work (much slower, I use an air nailer). You want them to only go through the plywood/osb. If you want this to be the best, why do you want to use osb for the subfloor? I would stick to 3/4" plywood.

As far as protecting the wires, you have plenty of pictures. Print them out and take some measurements of their location.

Regarding the shower walls. What do you want to know? :shades:

John Bridge
04-05-2005, 08:43 AM
You can also buy thin gauge sheetmetal stud shields at HD. :)

04-06-2005, 05:48 AM
bbcamp Bob said 1/4" durock is fine. That leaves you about 1-1/16" to 1-1/8" to make up. Start with 3/4" CC (plugged and sanded) Exterior grade plywood OR 3/4" Exposure 1 OSB. Overlay that with 3/8" BC or CC (plugged and sanded) Exterior grade plywood. Those are nominal dimensions, the actual dimensions will be about 1/32" less, so your subfloor will be 1-1/16" thick. He also said CX would want 1/2" but that I was good with 3/8. Bob seems to know his stuff sooooo....:D:D Hee hee, yes I got lots of pichers of the studs That's a good idea. I was trying to draw on top of the OSB where they are. :rolleyes:

Never mind the shower Q's I'm leaning more and more to doing the wallboard with the Kerdi!:eek::eek: Any DIYers wanna convince me that they used Kerdi and wallboard and it hasn't leaked yet? I ordered the Kerdi yesterday so when it arrives I'll do my own little water test :think:

JB, yep, I got some stud shields but I was more worried about the wires to to sides of the studs. I'll the shields and print pichers and measure and stuff. [cross fingers] That will work fine I think.


Still moving forward (for now). Yesterday I got the greenboard up on the ceiling using a ledge type system I was able to get the sheet up there and back down by myself for the dryfit test. Put a bunch of glue on it and got 'help' putting it up again. Needless to say there's a bunch of extra screw holes that had to be filled. :crazy: Here's a picher of the first run with the mud (don't laugh!) and a link to the before and during pichers. That torn thing shows the glued, paper stuff that is over all my plaster ceilings. It's purpose is either to be an anti-crack thing or to hold the plaster up there after it cracks so it doesn't fall and hit ya in da head!

04-06-2005, 06:09 AM
Hi Marni :)

Was there an epidemic of the measles in your area? :D

BTW, looking good. Should have any problems with the drywall coming down.

04-06-2005, 06:55 AM
Got a chuckle outta that did ya? :rolleyes:

04-06-2005, 09:23 AM
Hi Marni,

Nice drywall! Some serious mud there... Are you doing greenboard over your shower only, or the whole bath? Is there a thickness difference between it and regular rock?

About your wires -- I think you'll be fine with your plan, but an extra precaution might be to cut a PVC pipe in half (long-ways) and place it over the wires -- maybe tape it in place. A screw that hit it would probably deflect the wire to the side b/c of the curve in half-pipe...

Just a thought! You'll be fine without, though, so long's you don't get crazy with the drill.


04-06-2005, 10:55 AM
Now what fun would it be if I only had half those screw holes to fix???

Marcus, that greenboard is 1/2". Would have liked to have capped the ceiling with 1/4" drywall, but being in the bathroom and all I'll take the precaution with the thicker more water resistant stuff. Eek, all those holes to hide and I'll most likely be using a semi-gloss paint :eek:. Oh my!

Yes. No. Yes? No Yes! No. Yes? Greenboard all the way around?!? Will tell for sure when the Kerdi arrives ;)

Hmm that's a good idea to modify something to cover the wires... good thinkin Marcus! Come on now, you really think I'd over do it with the screws?? BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA :devil:


04-06-2005, 11:03 AM
:) Hmm that's a good idea to modify something to cover the wires... good thinkin Marcus! Come on now, you really think I'd over do it with the screws??

Well, gosh, no -- like I said, certainly that would be FAR more precaution than necessary for someone so conservative and fastener-cautious as yourself! :twitch:

John Bridge
04-06-2005, 02:55 PM
Looks like a pretty tight shot group on that board in the middle. ;)

04-08-2005, 04:12 AM
Marcus, guess what kind of screws I used? :laugh2:

JB, you're funny! I think buckshot leaves more of a pattern than my mess!


Kerdi and wallboard and finishing Questions:

1. If Kerdi is really only needed below the shower head so I kerdi up like 7'6" or so, do I need to put vapor barrier behind wallboard or paint on Redgard for the remaining 1.5'?

2. I'm thinking about tiling the ceiling just in the shower area. Do I need to something special over the greenboard that I just put up? Like Redgard? Or is it too late because there is no vapor barrier behind the wallboard. There is the original lath and plaster though.

3. Finishing the edges. I plan on using bullnosed pieces to finish the edge, but wonder about the transition from tile to wallboard. Not so much the act of tiling, but wonder about the thinset and Kerdi build up at the edge and how to keep the thinset and kerdi only under the tile so the rest is neat. Can I cut and scrape off the thinset and Kerdi that falls outside the intended tile area or do I just need to plan my layout real careful like. I hope you know what I'm talking about.

04-08-2005, 09:55 AM
Marcus, guess what kind of screws I used?

1/2" by 3.5" lag screws? That'd hold the floor down... :)

Oooh, I'm waiting to hear the answer for question 3 -- I was thinking about that yesterday.

Sleepless nights indeed... tub's coming out tomorrow.

04-08-2005, 10:20 AM
Marni --

For 1 & 2, you can tile right to the drywall above the level of the shower head. Just don't go insane with the handheld spray.

As for 3, one usually plans the layout such that the Kerdi ends behind the last row of tiles. This row of tiles is usually past the shower curtain or door, and so it doesn't matter that part of it has no Kerdi behind it. A neat bead of caulk color-matched to the grout finishes the tile-to-drywall transition.

And Marcus, I don't think that lag screw is long enough to reach the footings.

04-08-2005, 10:24 AM
Good point Jeff -- guessed wrong, I did!

So you end the Kerdi just under the edge of the last row of tile? How thick a gap does this leave to fill with caulk?

Off to buy some 1/2" x 42" lags...

04-08-2005, 05:54 PM
We grout all of our edges where the tile or stone meets the wall.

04-08-2005, 07:47 PM
So grout or caulk in this case. Makes sense since they are not meeting at different planes. I guess I'll just have to do it to see how to work it right. Grout sounds messy to do on that little side piece of tile. You run the grout in there in a caulk-like manner? No hand held sprayer unless I take my squirt gun in there :D

Another detail question: Because of the amount of water required to clean grout it would make sense to paint the abutting areas first so the wall board doesn't get ruined by the water and wiping. Do I need to be right on the money with my paint line or is it ok if it falls a bit under where the tiles will be. I said a bit... say I paint over the invisible line where the tile will go by say 1-3" what happens then? Will the paint interfere with the adhesion of the thinset and Kerdi?

Now don't be silly. You saw my ceiling do you really think I could hit the joist with somethin that big? Shoot I didn't use nothing that elaborate, just simple #8 2" deck screws, but I got ya thinking on that one! :nya:

04-11-2005, 01:16 PM
Aside from still not being too sure about the paint thing I decided to skip that part right now and see what comes of it.

Getting into framing the shower. So I have 2 questions (yes, only 2 :D)

1. What is the minimum recommended curb width for a glass door?
2. Is a glass door always hung in the center of the curb or more toward the inside of the shower?

I have to add a stud between the existing wall studs so anything goes. Oh, yeah, and if you ever wondered about that blown in insulation?.... it works real good; the wall bay was 99% full.

04-11-2005, 01:23 PM
Marni --

I know that Shaughnn (who knows more about tiling than you and I can ever hope to know) has said that you need 2" of curb on either side of a glass door, but I can't imagine why. The door mounts to the wall, as you know. I think JB has said he sometimes makes narrow curbs, maybe he will see this and chime in.

As for the stud, I think I would install two glued together. (The glue is in case a screw winds up in the seam.) That give you more wiggle room. The only disadvantage I can think of is a bit less insulation in that outside wall.

04-11-2005, 06:18 PM
Yeppers, Jeff. I'm sure Shaunn is experienced enough would have like another opinion, but since I'm again up to my earlobes in plaster, lath and now insulation. I have to make a decision perty quick. I have duct tape holding up a WHOLE lotta insulation and am gonna try to get up some wall board before I'm burried alive! :D

04-12-2005, 04:58 AM
Hi Marnie :)

I'm not a big fan of fat curbs either. We've done curbless showers successfully, so I don't think it's a violation to make one narrower. We usually use cinder block or bricks when applicable. If you have walls inline with your curb, you won't have any choice though. :shake:

04-15-2005, 01:58 AM
I called a couple glass shwer door companies a few days ago and asked em sbout the curb, they didnt seem to ave an opinion about water andf the curb width. /they really onlky tokld me that he traCK IS ABOUT 1" WIDE AND THAT IT NEEDS TO BE AT LEAST THAT WIDE. oops. So just cause the the frame needs to be 1" am am wondering from the pros perspective what looks better?

The tile Im thinging of using is 4x4 which is really 3 7/8" (but ill refer to it as 4x4) do you see any flaws in my calculations below that wont allow for the 4x4 tile to perfecly fit on top????...

2" solid curb material (dont know of what yet)
+1" total drywall (1/2 each side)
+3/8" total build up of thin set and kerdi (figure 3/16" build up per side for thinset kerdi thinset sequence x 2 side + 3/8" total)
+1/2" tile (1/4" on each side
=3 7/8" curb width that my top piece will fit perfectly on.
Do yiou think I shoud make the base marteial even thinner? I didnt take into account for kerdithinset build up at thr dam corners.

Im tring to figure it out cause I read where John says he sometimes builds hiis curb to fit the tile. Perhaps it woiuld be easier tio just fit the tile to the final curb size afterall... Any tips or suggestions?

04-15-2005, 04:38 AM
Hi Marni :)

I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Make your curb out of whatever, to whatever dimension that works out, and consider using a piece of granite or corian for the top to fit. You can use a contrasting or complimetary color. No grout joints either (except where it meets the tile).

04-15-2005, 01:55 PM
Thats a good idea John.... now what color???, texture???... just kiddin I'll go to local tile joint and check out what they have.


Ah, finally dont have to look at joists any more! :yipee: Plumbing under the floor and out of wall is all done and subfloor is down and I got a lot of drywall up too.

Here's a seies of posts with pics of progress to date... exciting, I know! Please, if you see something funky let me know cause I dont want to redo it later :)

04-15-2005, 01:57 PM
and sometimes things don't go quite right...

04-15-2005, 02:01 PM
... but we keep moving ahead and making adjustments even if it means tearing apart a whole other wall. :crazy:

Here;s the new stud I put in to holdd the shower door. Didnt know exactly where to put it so I made a really big one :Db and those are littke shims glued up cause the top of the studs weren;t plumb. And adding insulation (not done with that yet in pic)

04-15-2005, 02:05 PM
... and the get back on track for a little while!

04-15-2005, 02:13 PM
,... and just when you feel like yiour going full speed... BAM! Actually, I've known this was coming for quite some time now:) I didnt get quite as far as Id hoped to,but am happy that I was able to do as much as I did! And appreciate the assistace and shared information Ive received at this form to help me get this far.

Dont know when I'll be able to use the drill again, but am looking forward to watching everyone elses project progress and learning more stuff :D

ps I was suppose to wait 48 hrs before removing wrap, but I got it wet in hot tub :rolleyes: and had to take it off... so of course I took a picher of it... wont post it here cause its icky, but heres a link ( if ya like gross stuff :) :crazy:

John Bridge
04-15-2005, 03:37 PM
That wound actually looks pretty good. Believe me, I've seen "icky." ;)

The work looks very nice -- neat and orderly (you didn't learn that here). :D

04-15-2005, 03:51 PM
Nice work Marni! I think I'm about a month behind where you are -- heal quick so you can stay ahead of me! I'll keep larnin' that way...

Wound looks all right though -- planned surgery, from the sound of it (and the looks of the markings on your elbow).

Take care!

04-16-2005, 03:55 AM
Marni, Marni What some people won't do to avoid work :uhh: :rolleyes: At least you have something to make people feel sorry for you.

The project looks great. Now, just get better fast so you can finish it.

04-16-2005, 04:59 AM

I'll avoid my natural tendency towards being a wisea**. I know the frustration of the healing process, and hope you get through it quickly.


04-16-2005, 06:25 AM
Hi Marni :)

The work is looking good (the arm too)! :nod:

May you have a rapid recovery (and get back to work). :yeah:

04-16-2005, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the kind replies... you know I left that one piece of wall board not totally screwed in so I'd something to do once
I can hold my left arm high long enough to stready the drill ;) That wont be for a bit yet though. I'll havesome time to ponder the tile design part anyway.

Really? doesnt look bad? It was suppose to just be a arthoscopy, but I guess he ran inti more problems.

Oh no... believe me I dont do pity well at all... Im a "I can do it myself" kind a person... which gets me in trouble sometimes. :rolleyes: Anyway. I figured Id post the delay problem just in case someone was waiting fot me to show em somethin :D

Dont think this means yoiu pros get outta answerin Qs either though :shades:

John Bridge
04-16-2005, 07:09 PM
Marni, I've seen some bad stuff, and you're in good shape. Looks like a nice clean job to me. I have raised five boys of my own and some of their friends. I have seen some bad stuff. ;)

04-18-2005, 02:32 PM
Our 1928 house has the same pressed into plaster pattern. I plan to level it out with the above "wainscot" area with a trowel on mud...someday. I put the new tile tub surround in after yanking out the old tub surround plaster and replaced it with concrete board.
My brother and sister-in-law have metal tile sheets in their bath that have been painted over. So, I expect they will have to remove all their plaster. I am not sure what would bond to a plaster, metal, paint sandwich.
Project started in September. I am looking at sealers right now. :yipee:

04-19-2005, 04:54 PM
Huh, and I was beginning to think it was just my neighbor and I with the fake subway tile! Metal tiles? You mean like tin that is usually seen on the ceiling? Either way that is bizarre. I thought of mudding over the plaster, but since I'd still have to fix all the cracks before skimming anyway decided to drywall over it. LOL, only had 1 plaster wall left when demo was done though :crazy:

Robert Wenzl
04-19-2005, 09:42 PM

I've really enjoyed your thread and hope that you heal quickly. Just one question: Did you mean to color coordinate the scrubs/PJ's with the wall board in that pic? LOL

04-19-2005, 09:50 PM
Tee hee hee. Nah, those just happen to be easy on/easy off. Nice stockins too huh ;)!! I'm healin as fast as I can :dance:

04-20-2005, 05:08 AM
Hey, at least you are taking time to smell the posies now :D

Sure hope that arm is healing fast.

04-22-2005, 11:13 AM
It feels better from the surgery after just one week. My fingers don't look like Jimmy Deans anymore and two-handed light typing is getting easier. Not better than before the surgery cause I can't straighten it all the way... I'm sure the physical therapy (PT) folks will work that out :eek:. Won't know the good, bad, and ugly until Monday's follow up visit or about recovery and PT either. Thanks for your thoughts and yes, it's been a very lovely spring so far in these here parts. :yipee:

04-22-2005, 11:14 AM
QUESTION #1 KERDI DRAIN SEQUENCE: Upon typing a reply I noticed that John does his Kerdi drain setting sequence slightly different than the Schluter video. Not by much, but just enough that I have to wonder. Do you screed before you drain as in the video or drain before you screed as in John's book? Is one way better for slow and unfamiliar installers? Since I've never done this I have no 'preference' to go by.

QUESTION #2 TILE TYPES AND COLOR THROUGHOUT?: By eyeballing a tile piece and seeing that the top, the bottom, and the sides are all similiar color, would it be safe to assume that a cut in the tile would also produce an edge that is of consistant color with the top of the tile? Are some tile types better for that? Porcelain rather than ceramic or unglazed over glazed? What about a screened ceramic? I ask because the last tile I used, a glazed ceramic, was not very forgiving when softening the sharp cut edge and I want to get a tile that is more workable yet still within my means.

EDIT for another question.... :)

QUESTION #3 RELEASE POWDER ON PORCELAIN?: Can you explain this comment and how I tell what is "too much release powder"? "make sure you use an adhesive approved for porcelain, because a lot of companies making cheap porcelain put too much release powder on the back and the adhesive just sticks to the powder and then youre screwed later" (Quote copied from this thread ( which as CX pointed out before closing it is 3 1/2 years old if that matters)

:bow: :bow: :bow:

04-27-2005, 05:55 PM
Yes, I'm sort of answering my own thread now. This is getting bad! :D

1. I've decided that doing the drain before the screed is probably better since then the screed won't completely dry out while I fiddle around with figuring out the drain. This is most likely one of those 'preferences' so I won't sweat it.

2. My observations tell me that nothing really seems to be standard. I can't tell a through and through from a glazed. I think unglazed will result in better cut edges and bullnosing ability of porcelain though. When I'm up to it I'll take my samples to the basement and saw away and see what happens.

3. Release powder is like flour on the bottom of a sheet cake. I'm not sure how much is too much yet, but in my tile adventures over the last several days I did see one that had a lot on it.

Yeah, all of this is way ahead of time thinkin anyway :D

04-28-2005, 07:48 AM

I was worried about the release powder too. I took one of the 12x12's and washed half of the back of the tile with a sponge. Nothing came off on the sponge, and there was no change in the surface of the tile, so I decided that there was no powder residue. It takes a sledge hammer and chisel to get a tile off the wall, so I guess I should be OK.

In case you haven't seen them, I posted photos this morning. I can't believe I gave in to peer pressure! :eek:

Robert Wenzl
05-18-2005, 09:45 PM

How's the arm? Haven't heard from this thread in awhile and am curious how its coming.


09-14-2005, 02:04 PM
Bumping Marni to the top of the list -- found myself referring someone to your pocket door install. Hope all's healing well!

10-07-2005, 03:47 PM
YAHOO!! Feeling much better! So far so good with the results of the elbow surgery and I just started back to work doing limited duty stuff although I keep telling them I can do more. I went through lots of physical therapy then a program called "work hardening" which kind of simulates your work environment; in my case I got to move boxes all over the place :)

Near the end of my 'posting era', I wrote that I had started running and I just wanted to say that I'm still doing it and have my first 1/2 marathon on October 23! Someday I hope to follow in Steve's shoes and run a whole marathon. My original goal when I signed up was 2:11 but now I'm thinking I might manage a 2:04 (might).

Anyway, I figured I'd post a post picture. Can you believe I left this mess like this for nearly 6 months? Couldn't bring myself to admit the recovery was gonna take a while I guess. Shoot the night before the surgery I was in the garage cutting drywall. :crazy: I did manage to finish securing the last piece I put up during my recovery, but found that holding the drill was way too much so I walked away. The plastic used to be held up with duct tape, but I guess the summer humidity melted it off the wood framing. Ahhh, something else to do.

To make a long post longer :D, I know I won't have the time I did before to work on my project and yak and read about everyone else's great adventures and post pichers and stuff, but I really really really really do appreciate this site and the great information that is exchanged here.

P.S. I did get the pocket door stained and sealed though! Yeah, looks great!

10-07-2005, 04:05 PM
Welcome back Marni -- glad to hear things are going so well! Good luck on your half marathon -- I just did my first one. If you knock back 2:04 you'll be moving faster than I was, not like that'd be tough.

The elbow's looking good -- clearly it can handle the "saucy" poses amidst drywall and vapor barrier... :shades: :)

10-07-2005, 06:04 PM
Wow mark should see that pose. You look like the next Makita girl 2006 or the new John Brdige mascot! im sure the other tile nerds would agree. You look like you are about 21 there.

10-07-2005, 09:36 PM
Hi Marnie :)

Welcome back! Glad to hear recovery from the surgery is going well. Please don't do something foolish. Take good care of yourself, you deserve it! :nod:

10-07-2005, 09:53 PM
Geeez, Marni, I'm sorry I missed all that. Looks like you did alla hard parts whilst I was owlin'.

Hell, you didn't even git to benefit from my usual pocket-door nag. :D

10-08-2005, 02:36 PM
I know this has been discussed before. Kerdi over drywall says you don't have to tape and mud the seems, BUT I would much rather have an entirely flat surface to start with so I don't have to worry about building up tiles at all. I'm NOT a pro and would most certain mess this up or fiddle around with getting it perfectly built up until I drive myself nuts. So PLEASE remind me: Kerdi will adhere ok to drywall mud, right? (thank you for for replies) :)
Darn, the crapper water supply pipe seeped a little on the greenboard over the past 6 months; guess I should have capped it. It might have been ok if the green board hole hadn't been so snug to the pipe. It probably wouldn't be too noticeable after painted and such, but I'm going to cut a new piece for that section of wall just in case. At least it's not attached to the wall yet. Anyway, I just finished up replacing that piece.

Marcus! - How's the project going? Dang, you just ran a HM too? Which one did you do? "Saucy" huh. (smirk)

Opie's my new bestest friend (quote: "You look like you are about 21 there") Thanks Opie, I feel great! Not 21, but pretty dang good for a 37 yo anyway ;)I wasn't trying for a saucy pose looking thing, just tryin to get the elbow and the abandoned project in the picher. :)

John - No funny business for me. I'll take it easy. I'm also in a 30 day return to work program now (lighter duty). I plan on working on the project in smaller time segments than before. I did go a little out on vacation recently and golfed 6 of 7 days with NO problems. YAHOO!

CX - Not to worry, some of the guys covered for you whilst you were "owlin". :D

John Bridge
10-08-2005, 04:01 PM
Welcome back, Marni. Good to see ya, saucy or not. ;)

I'm gonna try for a run around my block. Figure I can come in first (about an hour, prolly). :D

10-08-2005, 04:54 PM
Yeah well you could be my super with that pose ya know. get that damn project done will ya we love the after pictures

Tool Guy - Kg
10-09-2005, 02:05 AM
Welcome back, Marni! :aparty: Good to see you again!

Opie's cracked, you look more like 19 in that picher! :nod:

10-09-2005, 06:29 AM
Im cracked gee and just to think I was goona let you keep the 50 cal for awhile. I am more than cracked I am so warped a sander cant even get me back flat.

10-09-2005, 08:09 AM
Hi, Marni! Welcome back! :wave:

10-09-2005, 08:59 AM
Welcome back!!!

So glad your arm is doing well...take care of it. After two elbow surgeries, mine is held together with pins and screws. Sounds like you are following doctor's orders...make sure you do!


Tool Guy - Kg
10-09-2005, 06:06 PM
I'm tryin to score more points than you with Marni! If you took offense and I gotta give you your 50 cal back, lemmie fire it off for just a little while longer. It's fun as all get out! :nod:

10-12-2005, 12:32 PM
Thanks for all the welcome backs! No more "standin' 'round" pichers for you guys cause you git distracted too much and fergit to answer the question at hand. :D :loaded: :D

I was gonna ask again about the taping under the Kerdi, but (amazingly enough :)) I found the answer using search!

(I wuz kiddin bout the pichers :D)