forming shower pan liner over angled curb [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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jmc
04-20-2002, 09:20 PM
i'm installing a tile shower basin with two 45 degree corners. does anyone know of a prefabbed 45 degree corner patch to use with PVC liner. or how about a description with photos (book or website) on how to form the liner at these corners? where to cut, how to patch over cut etc?

also, i've read a few negative comments about using travertine stone (vs ceramic)for shower walls and floors but don't know the details of why this material is not recommended. please advise. i'm planning on using 4x4 travertine for the walls and 12x12 sheets of 3/4" x 3/4" pcs for the floor. is this a bad idea, have i been swindled by the tile salespeople who swear (after a thorough interigation on my part) that these materials are fine for shower walls and floor?

any advice/info on the above would be great.
thanks


any help would be great, thanks.

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John Bridge
04-20-2002, 09:41 PM
Hi JMC, Welcome aboard.

You probably heard me say that travertine is not a good material for showers. It's very porous, for one thing, and that's not good in a shower where it will soak up all the hard water and soap you can throw at it. You would be much better off with a good quality ceramic tile.

You can't use 12-inch peices of anythign on a shower floor to good result. Go to any of your friends' and relatives' houses and see if you can find a shower floor like that. The reason is that the floor has to be "dished," and large pieces won't conform.

To my knowledge there are no pre-made corners for the 45/135 degree angle curb, but you don't need them. When you actually get into it, you'll find that the liner can be folded at the "neo" angles. Come to think of it, though, I think Rob Z. did say that somebody makes them, but you still don't need them.

Sonnie Layne
04-20-2002, 10:32 PM
JMC,

John's right.

Only times I've used 12" on shower basins was with standard rectangular or square floors. In that case, the mud bed had to be laid in four separate planes, each flat unto itself. that leaves you with four radii from the drain to the four corners. The angles depend on a number of things, but can be done. In your case, you're tossing into the salad a couple of 135's. That could get pretty messy.

Ditto on the hard water and soap scum. Trav can be done, but not practical in the real world. Visit a nice tile shop. Most don't sell openly to retail trade so you might have to break down and hire a tile man or decorator. You'll be amazed at the travertine styled porcelains.

Where are you from? maybe we could point you in the right direction for best selection?

Welcome, stick around. We get together every fourth event of the blue moon on Fridays and John feeds us prime rib and twinkies!!! :D

jmc
04-21-2002, 07:30 PM
thanks for the info. i've tried forming the liner over the angled parts of the curbs without making any cuts and i can get the material folded over but it ends up being really bulky at the corner. i'm afraid when i mortar over this bulk it will creat a weak spot in the mortar leading to future cracks etc..

concerning the 12" x 12" sheets i referred to in my posting, what i meant to say is that the sheets are 12x12 but the actual pieces of tile are about 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/2" thick. the small pieces being held together by mesh on the bottom.

anyway, these angled corners are going to be the death of me! should have stuck with a rectangle being a first timer.

thanks

flatfloor
04-21-2002, 08:14 PM
Man Ol John spares no expense! Twinkies n Prime Ribs washed down with a vintage Kool Aid. Wouldn't miss it for the world. :D

Paul D.
04-21-2002, 08:23 PM
Hang in there jmc,

If John said "no problem", then there is a way to make it work. You might be worrying a bit too much about the "weak mortar" on the curb. If you have access to a digital camera, take a picture and post it so you can get specific advice on placing the mesh, etc. Folks do that all the time. Don't cut anything until you run the traps here on that corner.

The cool thing about mud, is that it can be shaped to whatever it needs to. I just fixed up a knee wall-curb interface yesterday, and I'm a rookie. :D

flatfloor
04-21-2002, 08:34 PM
Take a look at diemeto's post on 4/20/02 more about travertine.

John Bridge
04-22-2002, 05:38 AM
Getting the correct angles on the curb is important, and it's not hard to do. The usual angle is not 45 degrees but 135 degrees. A tri-square or framig square along with a 45 degree tri-angle make that angle on the inside of the shower. There are, of course, other ways to arrive at 135, but this is an easy one.

An alternate is to hold a straightedge and the 45 degree tri-angle on the outside of the curb.

Now, if you miss a little, it will cause you a little additional cutting when you tile your shower floor, but it's not the end of the world. Relax. ;)

Sonnie Layne
04-22-2002, 10:19 AM
If you have a heat gun you can "relax" that pan liner considerably in those corners. Use an appropriate adhesive with the heat and it nearly goes away. John's right, no worry.

jmc
04-22-2002, 12:10 PM
thanks guys,

i've completed forming the liner over the 135 degree angle curbs. i did end up cutting the material where the liner comes over the inside of the curb, then lapped it over the curb. with the cuts the material fits snug to the curb. i've ended up with a small hole at the top of the curb where i cut the liner. i will cut a patch from liner material and cover the small hole with the patch. i still have no holes on the inside of the liner, so i should be okay there. i just need to make sure i get a good seal around the small hole at the top that resulted from the cuts.

okay, another question: When i went to attach the top half of my drain flange the material was pulled around a little bit when i tightened down the screws. This resulted in the material not laying perfectly flat to my sloped subfloor in a couple spots, basically it was pulled out of square slightly. The weight of the mortar bed i put on top of the liner should flatten out those areas that bunched up (very minimal). Correct?

Sonnie Layne
04-22-2002, 12:50 PM
You should have enough mud on top to cease any worries over it. As far as the cuts along the curb go, you either gotta trust adhesives or not, eh? I mean they should work, right?

John Bridge
04-22-2002, 04:05 PM
Buy the shower pan liner glue at Home Depot. Compseal is one. I think that's what they have. Or they may have Oatey. Either one. Make sure it's the glue for pan liners and not regular PVC pipe glue.

No problem on the wrinkles. I have plenty of them, and they don't slow me up much. :D

Sonnie Layne
04-24-2002, 08:53 PM
very good, JP... :)