Major Tile Project - Concrete Floor- ?? [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

PDA

View Full Version : Major Tile Project - Concrete Floor- ??


Dreamen
11-26-2004, 07:31 AM
I am about ready to start laying tile on my basement floor. I have layed smaller areas and have done a complete shower with mud pan and rubber liner so I know a little but this is a big area with expansion joints and stryo on edges of outside wall.

Question #1 I have attached pictures of the floor plan, the dotted lines are the expansion joints with the plastic strips. Even the small diagonal. As you can see from one of the other pictures a couple of these joints are not straight and off almost an 1". From what I have read I need to make a soft Joint I think that is what someone called it, so I will have to cut tiles and make a line on each joint as I am using 2 different size tiles and fill with a matching caulk. Do I need to worry about the stagger in the joint? Should I use some type of anti fracture membrane? If so what and How? Can I get by not doing a soft joint on the angled expansion joint as it is not as long and it would not loook the best cutting tile there?

Question #2 What do I do by the outside wall edges with the 1 1/2" Styro, just put down thinset and lay tile over top?

Question #3 Which thinset should I use? Menards says use the cheap stuff on cement not latex modified? What I have read on the site says to use Latex modified but there are 2 types I have seen, Sturdi Flex and Super Flex which is $30 a bag vs $15 for the Sturdi. The regular thinset is $6.

Question #4 An area this size in not level from one end to the other, there are high and low spots but it is even, smooth and gradual up and downs. The tiles I am using are 13" and 6 1/4 (aprox)X13". Should I use a floor levelor?

Last Question #4 Planning on using a 1/4 -3/8 grout line is that OK?
I appreciate your help in this, looking foward to getting this done, sure hope my knees can hold out.
Thanks
Mark
Pictures were to large will try to make smaller so they can be attached?? Any suggestions Finally got the pictures attached, had to take a picture of the plan as a scan was to large. The expansion joints are dotted and are 15' and 19' the angled one is 6'

Sponsored Links


tileguytodd
11-26-2004, 07:55 AM
Mark, welcome aboard. this ones going to take a little time and unfortunatly i'm out of time(ive got to go to work)
Hopefully someones got the day off for you. I'll check back this evening to see if your question got handled.............Dont do anything rash like following menards advice :D

John Bridge
11-26-2004, 07:20 PM
Hi Mark, Welcome. :)

I don't know what to do over the styrofoam insulation at the perimeter. I guess I would do exactly as you said. I would make sure there is a gap of about a quarter inch between tile and foundation walls.

I don't use six dollar thin set for anything. I consider it garbage, and you can tell them at Menards that I said so. :) Use the fifteen dollar stuff.

Yes you do have to leave a quarter inch (grout joint) movement joint over every expansion joint. You can miss it by an inch, but that's about it. There are membrane manufacturers who say you can offset farther than that. Check out the Noble Company. http://www.noblecompany.com

I don't think you need a floor leveler. You should be able to back-butter thin set onto the larger tiles to keep them supported. Slows you down a bit, but it works. :)

tileguytodd
11-26-2004, 07:32 PM
Mark, i made it back and see youve been left needing help.

Lets start with the concrete undultaions.Thinset(a good Modified) can be moxed thin and screeded over the low spots.For this you are going to need a good long straightedge and perhaps a few shorter ones.1x3's or 1x4's that are straight can be used,cleaned and used for other projects later.Check all area's and with a pancil mark High spots and pencil in the low spots.Screed all the low spots and let it dry overnight.featherout any area's with thinset or Ardex featherfinish the next day.Grind down any highs that are extreme humps with a cup grinder.(this is rarely needed after screeding)Hopefully this will get things a bit flatter for you.Flat is more important than level OK :)

The styrofoam-This I have seen and I'll tell you right now,nothing is going to work over this so my reccomendation is this.Build out a wainscot wall and give it a nice chairail ledgecap.Perhaps for photoframes knick knacks etc.This is the only decent way to handle this situation.Tile will crack everytime.The wainscot wall actually is a very nice architectural feature and is not really expensive either.

The expansion joints.There are a couple of ways you can deal with these.
#1-By the book.Either a grout joint falls on the expansion joint,or you will cut tiles and leave this a soft joint(sanded caulk that matches your grout).This is By the Book.
#2- I have had excellant success using an antifracture membrane called Flexgaurd.Its a self sticking(dont less this worry you,the stuff sticks very well) roll membrane available in several sizes.In your case i would get the 24" or 36" roll and roll it out over the expansion area.With this method 2 softjoints are required per expansion joint.the 2 rows of tile that fall on or are next to the joint get soft joints.The middle one can be grouted or caulked.

1/4 - 3/8" groutlines are fine.Most prople prefer a smaller joint.I generally use a 3/16" but find that most super center tile departments do not sell product calibrated well enough for a small joint.Read the tile box, it may even say on it not to attempt to tile with less than a 1/4" joint.
A Modified thinset is a much better product and if the tile you are using is a dense porcelain(vitreous or semi vitreous) you really should use a modified.
Is Menards the only outfit in your area?? Can you find Mapei or Custom Products??
Lowes carries Mapei.Ultraflex 2 is an excellant thinset.Home depot carries custom.Versabond will work well for you in this case.
I'll keep an eye out for anymore questions you may have. Good Luck to you.

Where are you located?? :)

Dreamen
11-27-2004, 07:07 AM
Hi
Thanks for the reply's Todd, I live in Forest Lake, We are practically neighbors we have a Home Depot and Menards, color tile, tile shop so I can get thinset at any of them. Which would you recommend? As far as the flex guard where can I get that? Not sure that I understand what you mean by this statement after you put down the flexguard

With this method 2 softjoints are required per expansion joint.the 2 rows of tile that fall on or are next to the joint get soft joints.The middle one can be grouted or caulked.

The floor is flat but in the picture of the layout the center section between the expansion joints is about 1/2" higher than the right and left sides and is a gradual slope down each way. Hope that makes sence, but I have a 8' straight edge that I will check thoughtout the rest of the floor.

As far as the styrofoam on the edges it is below the concrete about 1/4" and is between the concrete and the outside 6" wall, this is a walkout basement so that is at ground level. Not much weight goint to be on that 1" as 1/2 sheet and almost 1/2 trim not much left. doing the wainscoating because of the patio door and 2 big windows would be difficult. Where the patio door is I will put a Oak sill plate on top of tile up to the door. I appreciate your comments and help
Thanks
Mark

Dreamen
11-30-2004, 06:17 AM
Hi Apreciate the help so far, if I could just get my last couple of questions answered in my last post it would really be helpful. I am about ready to start laying tile. Thanks
Mark

John Bridge
11-30-2004, 05:29 PM
Versa Bond from Home Depot, maybe. They have Home Depot's way up there? :)

I don't know where you can buy Flex Guard. It would have to be a tile store. The big boxes won't have it.

Rd Tile
11-30-2004, 05:34 PM
This is where I get it all the time.:)

http://www.tile-stonetools.com/Crack_Tile.asp

cx
11-30-2004, 06:30 PM
The floor is flat but in the picture of the layout the center section between the expansion joints is about 1/2" higher than the right and left sides and is a gradual slope down each way. Hope that makes sence, but I have a 8' straight edge that I will check thoughtout the rest of the floor. Given what you've got there, Mark, I wouldn't make any effort to fix that section if you can get those 13" tiles to lay down without excessive lippage. If they match up with the other sections, I think that's about the best you can hope for. I think you're gonna find some of that floor movin' about over the years anyway. Oh, yeah, I really do. :shades:

As far as the styrofoam on the edges it is below the concrete about 1/4" and is between the concrete and the outside 6" wall, this is a walkout basement so that is at ground level. Not much weight goint to be on that 1" as 1/2 sheet and almost 1/2 trim not much left. Again, I think you aughta just do the best you can. I see no reason not to just install the tiles (making sure you have large pieces at the edges) with the edge hanging over the foam and never look back. Be sure to leave plenty of gap between tile and wall, as much as will comfortably cover with wallboard and trim.

I ain't no tile guy, but you're not dealing with an ideal situation and it's your own floor. I don't think you'd get any kind of guarantee from a professional tile mechanic, if you could actually get one to tile that floor, so I say just give it your best shot and tell us how it went. :shades:

My opinion; worth price charged.

tileguytodd
11-30-2004, 07:00 PM
Mark, i didnt mean to drop the ball on ya here.Dont be shy,PM or email me.hell everyone else does ;)
You dont have a lot of foam so perhaps for this situation you could use a old style baseboard trim.a 3/4" 1x3 capped with quarter round and cove stick at the base.this will effectively give you a nice classy base that comes out 1 1/2" from the wall.
RD gave you a site for the flexgaurd.RBC(rollin B Childs carries it in the cities and its likely the tileshop can order it for you)Home depot has Custom thinsets,Lowes has Mapei thinsets.either are better than Color tile or Tileshops products and for less.
Lowes,use Mapei Ultraflex2(not 1, 2) At Home depot Versabond's fine like john said.
Any other questions ,shoot me a pm or email if i'm a bit slow ;)

Dreamen
12-04-2004, 06:09 PM
Just a quick question. I have ordered the flexguard. Found the Versa Bond at Home Depot. They also have an expensive thinset flexbond that they recommend for concrete with cracks. Would it pay to buy a couple bags of this and use just where the tile is over my expansion joints where I am using the flexguard or is it just a waste of $$.
Thanks
Mark

Rd Tile
12-04-2004, 06:11 PM
I would just use the Versabond if you have the membrane there, cheaper and easier to work with.:)