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Twortle
11-08-2004, 01:27 PM
Hello all! My name is Damon and I AM SO GLAD YOU GUYS ARE HERE! I have been lurking while I starting my first bathroom remodel and WOW have you guys helped me a bunch. Some questions I have before I begin my shower pan that I have not seen answered (if it has, please let me apologize for not finding the answer):
1.How do you mud the inside of the curb without running the risk of slicing the membrane with a trowel or even the metal lathing over the curb?
2. I do not have the drain plumbing in place yet as I was going to have my plumber do that after I complete my pan. How can this be done? How will I test the pan for leaks? If balloon tester, where might I find one of these HD or Lowes?

I'm a worry wart so feel free to give me what you got. I went with PVC liner as that is all that is available locally. :bow:

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bbcamp
11-08-2004, 01:56 PM
1) The pan membrane is pretty tough. You'll have to work at it to tear it. That said, be careful and watch what you are doing.

2) You cannot complete your pan if the drain is not there. Have your plumber set the drain fitting first since youhave to calculate the slope based on the height of the drain.

A child's party balloon can be used to test the pan. You have to insert it into the drain, blow it up, then tie it off. And don't let anyone near you with a video camera. :D Seriously, though, that's the way to do it. Make sure that the balloon is past the weep holes. If the balloon pops, try again.

Twortle
11-08-2004, 03:59 PM
Thanks. Is there an "ideal" height that the drain should be since I can have it set wherever I need it to be?

John Bridge
11-08-2004, 05:52 PM
Welcome aboard, Damon. :)

Take a look at the shower articles we have posted in our "Liberry." There are pictures and words that will answer many of your questions. :)

Twortle
11-09-2004, 08:19 AM
Thank you! I will do that.

On a side note, I must say to all of the contributors to this site, you are doing a great service for us DIY'ers. Most of the things you cover is either:

1. Not covered in many of the home remodeling books found at your local home improvement stores or
2. They tell you something wrong (i.e. a HD book [Tiling 1-2-3] on building a shower pan shows that you lay your PVC onto the plywood subfloor and then lay your deck mud. It also does not say to use mason's mortar on the curb)

After reading this forum I realized that water would collect on the membrane and never make it to the weep holes in the drain and Hello Mold and mildew.

So truly...THANKS!

Twortle
11-09-2004, 10:44 AM
My subfloor is diagonal cut 1/2" planks with some gapping between planks. Joists are 16" OC. I have blocked all of the joists 16" apart under my tub for additional reinforcement as the whirlpool tub is 72" by 42" with a 82"x52" surround. I also sistered some of the joists as some were damaged from old bathroom. I plan on putting in plywood over the entire floor of the bathroom including shower pan. For the bathroom floor, not pan, then putting Hardibacker on top of that (1/2") Questions:

1. In shower pan or other areas, should I put 15# felt between plywood and plank subfloor?

2. Should I use some lathe from Lowes for my pre-slope construction. The pan is roughly only 48" by 44".
3. If I understand this correctly, I need to put thin-set between plywood and floor mud, and put down the floor mud immediately after applying thinset right?
4. 1/2" plywood + 1/2" Hardibacker on floor + tile +mortar equals threshold nightmare. First 1/2" plywood will bring to existing floor in doorway. Additional hardi and tile/mortar will be high. Any workaround ?

bbcamp
11-09-2004, 11:02 AM
Hi, Damon!

1) No tarpaper between the planks and plywood.

2) Yes. Here is where you staple the tarpaper to the top of the plywood, then the lath, then your deck mud.

3) You are a bit confused. If you are using backerboard for your floor, you spread thinset on the plywood and set the board before the thinset sets. In the shower, just dump the deck mud over the lath and tarpaper.

4) Yes. But first, please confirm that you actually have 1/2" planks. They usually are 3/4" actual (1" nominal), but yours are yours and could be different. If they are 3/4" (or thicker), then add a 3/8" layer of plywood and then Ditra. This will be 1/2" thick. If the planks are indeed 1/2", then use 5/8" plywood and Ditra. (Ditra is a membrane from the Schluter company. See their link at the top of the page.)

Twortle
11-09-2004, 11:10 AM
Yes. Sorry...lost me head... Planks are 3/4" so 3/8" plywood on top of planks + Ditra =7/8" + mortar+tiles. The floor I am trying to get to is 1/2" hardwood. Just threshold it with something?

bbcamp
11-09-2004, 11:41 AM
Ditra is a membrane that's only 1/8" thick, so your underlayment will be about 1/2" thick. www.schluter.com

You can make or buy a hardwood transition strip that will match the wood flooring. These strips are tapered so they reduce the effect of the floor height difference. They don't look bad, either.

Twortle
11-15-2004, 08:41 AM
Hello Again all. I have a "problem" The 3-piece shower pan drain is about to be installed. The dead-center of the new shower pan will be right in the middle of a joist. Can I move it forward or backward? If so, how will affect my slope on my pre-pan? Also...I did not notice but I have a bit of unlevelness (is that a word?) inside the rough area for the shower. I did not show this until I put the plywood underlayment down as I had planks, and I guess the span of the level did not reflect. It is about 1/2 bubble on the level (1/8th of an inch). Will my pre-pan slope take care of this?

(Picher Attached for clarity)

Thanks in advance

bbcamp
11-15-2004, 08:51 AM
First off, Damon, your work area is far too neat. How do you expect anyone to believe how hard you're working if they look at this picher!? And NO empty adult beverage mini transportation/consumption units! Haven't we taught you anything? :D

I trust the water wall is the one to the right. If so, move the drain to the center of the joist bay towards that wall. This will make the shower floor a little more difficult to install, but not impossible. You will still maintain a level perimeter, but the slope to the water wall will be steeper than the other side. You can fudge the slope to the fartherest wall a little, say 3/16" pr foot, instead of 1/4" per foot. It's not much, and as long as you make preslope surface without any "birdbaths" or low spots, it'll work fine.

Yes, use a litle extra mud in the low area of the subfloor to correct.

I see you remembered to notch the studs. :D

Twortle
11-15-2004, 10:48 AM
First things first...Rookie bathroom remodeler...adult beverages MUST be later lest a year down the road comes, I step into shower and floor falls in, shower wall come down, jacuzzi tub no worky, wife/son walk out. I stand there thinking "...huh...wonder what I messed up on..." :bang:

Work area neat? You should see the things the picher does not show. Tools, wood blocks. etc. scattered about. ("Honey...I don't know what to do next, but I think I need a new tool to get that done...") LOL

Bob...if understand correctly...Yes the wall with the shower head and controls will be on the right. So you are saying move the drain to the right also and make the slope from the wall on the left (i.e left to right slope to drain) more steep or less steep to the drain? I also am planning on building a monument bench from cinder blocks on the left side of the back wall so how will that affect my slopes?

With that in mind, can I build the monument (monolith bench) perpindicular to the wall or must it be angled in a corner as noted in these WONDERFUL forums. If perpendicular is acceptable, how do I stabalize it to a wall?

Last question...I ran my vapor barrier down as you can see. Where does that need to stop? At just below the 2x10 blocking or farther down?

And of course I notched my studs and moved my blocking back...I learned from you guys! :bow: Thanks Bob!

bbcamp
11-15-2004, 11:39 AM
What I was suggesting was to use 3/16" per foot for calculating the height of the perimeter. Looking at your picher, I estimate the width of the shower is about 40 inches. Assuming that the joist is exactly 20 inches away from the left wall, and you move the drain 1/2 a joist bay (about 8"), then your drain will be 28 inches away from the far (left) wall and about 12 inches from the water (right) wall. Using a slope of 1/4" per foot to the far wall, the perimeter height is about 9/16". Using this to figure the slope to the near wall you get 9/16" per foot slope. This may be a bit steep, or not. Now, using 3/16" per foot, the perimeter is 7/16" and the slope on the water wall side is 7/16" per foot. A little less steep.

Moving the drain so it just clears the joist will help reduce the slope problems.

In the case of an angled bench, the perimeter of the shower is constant across the front of the bench. If the bench juts out from the wall, it will look better if the floor slopes more or less constantly, even if it means that the perimeter slopes along one of the sides. Planning your layout so that you avoid skinny tiles along with floor will hide this.

The vapor barrier stops about 2 inches below the top of the liner. Remember to place the liner behind the vapor barrier. It will be covered by the backerboard. The backer board stops about 1/2" above the preslope. Don't nail the backerboard through the liner!

Twortle
11-15-2004, 12:19 PM
Ok! Got it!

Good estimates based on a picher. The width of the the shower in the picher is 43.5 inches wide and 4 foot depth to the end of my wet wall which, when the curb is added (-3.5 inches) and I adjust for the width of the tile and mortar placed on the end of the wet wall and depth of mud on curb wall (no less than 1/2) to be flush, will make it just slightly more than the width of the shower. It may seem anal retentive but I wanted it to be a square as possible (newbies you know).

Bob...thanks for the help! I will post more pics as the project develops. You are truly a great guy to have on hand.

John Bridge Forums are the Best! :)

Twortle
11-22-2004, 08:21 AM
I am about to set the whirlpool tub in my enclosure. A book I read stated I need to set it in "dry-set" mortar. Is this necessary and if so, what is meant by "dry-set mortar?" Thanks in advance.

proszkow
11-22-2004, 01:02 PM
Damon, just finished my bathroom with a whilrpool and have some lessons that might be of some help.

Have you built your tub enclosure yet? Have you tiled it yet or does it have CBU or just the plywood on top?

Suggest you "hang" the tub from the tub enclosure with a bag of mortar under the tub. The mortar will provide a good solid base under the tub.

My tub had feet but no matter what I tried I couldnt get the tub lip level with the top of the enclosure. I ended up with an uneven caulk line between the tub and the tile.

When you hang the tub make sure you shim up the tub to leave enough room for what will be beneath the lip. Add an additional 1/16-1/8 inch to allow for some expansion.

Alex

Farrell
11-22-2004, 03:08 PM
Try using A Tileredi pre-formed shower pan, drain and curb built in and can be tiled over with tile of your choice. They offer lifetime against leakage.
Can be installed and Tiled the same day


Hello all! My name is Damon and I AM SO GLAD YOU GUYS ARE HERE! I have been lurking while I starting my first bathroom remodel and WOW have you guys helped me a bunch. Some questions I have before I begin my shower pan that I have not seen answered (if it has, please let me apologize for not finding the answer):
1.How do you mud the inside of the curb without running the risk of slicing the membrane with a trowel or even the metal lathing over the curb?
2. I do not have the drain plumbing in place yet as I was going to have my plumber do that after I complete my pan. How can this be done? How will I test the pan for leaks? If balloon tester, where might I find one of these HD or Lowes?

I'm a worry wart so feel free to give me what you got. I went with PVC liner as that is all that is available locally. :bow:

John Bridge
11-23-2004, 07:09 AM
Is that a commercial, Farrell? Sound off, or I'll take it down. :)