Is Armstrong S-184 ok to patch cracks? [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile


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08-05-2004, 01:26 PM

Just came back from Home Depot and they suggested Armstrong S-184 "Fast setting patch and skim coat" to fill cracks in an old mud bed before tiling. It is latex-modified unsanded portland cement based. Do you guys think this could work if I mix it a little runnier than 3:1?

Regards, Joerg.

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08-05-2004, 02:07 PM
I don't know about the Armstrong stuff, but have you figured what caused the cracks in the first place?

Anyway, I think you'd want a crack isolation membrane. Those cracks will act like expansion joints.

08-05-2004, 02:28 PM
Hi Bob,

I don't know what caused them. Maybe they tiled over it too early, or maybe settling cracks. Problem with a membrane is that the pro stuff such as Ditra will add too much height because the surface isn't 100% level (some residual old thinset that I can't get off). So even Ditra will end up adding 1/3" or more which locks up the dishwasher. The installers barely got this thing in and said any fraction of an inch more and they couln't have done it.

I have seen Home Depot's Red Guard applied. But the gooey feel of it scared me thinking it might let go of the bond between that and the new thinset.

Regards, Joerg.

08-05-2004, 02:41 PM
Nobleseal Cis - 30 Mils (.030")

08-05-2004, 03:29 PM
Hi Joerg.

You should be able to handle 30 mils and if not, take the adjustable "feet" (if so equipped) off the dishwasher for a smidge more clearance.

08-05-2004, 06:47 PM
Hi Mike,

Well, that trick they did already when cramming the dishwasher in there after our old one died.

Thing is, I have residual thinset left on the floor and that kind of gets hidden into the new thinset so that the tiles won't come any higher than the old ones. For the membrane to work I'd have to spread the Noble glue so it is even and then lay the Nobleseal or other membrane flat. Now I am already more than 1/4" above the mortar. Then I would trowel thinset and add the usual thickness of that plus the tile.

Would porcelain tiles be stronger against cracking than ceramic tiles?

08-05-2004, 07:02 PM
the nobleseal installed is less then 1/8"

08-05-2004, 07:02 PM
Question: Would the Red Guard stuff from Home Depot help?

This doesn't add any thickness since it is brushed on as an elastic coat. I just don't know if that would help when some of the old thinset is left on the surface and the surface would therefore not be quite even.

Regards, Joerg.

08-05-2004, 07:28 PM
The redgaurd will work, but the noble will add about the same height as a 2 coat redgaurd job done properly.The Noble would be faster as you dont have the dry time between coats.Eric,s Option would be ideal.Fast,thin and a proven effective isolation membrane.

08-05-2004, 07:29 PM
Joerg, when is comes right down to it, tile not really needed under the DW. Given all the limitations you have and what's been done already, I'd shoe-horn it in there and tile right up to the built in toe-kick cover, protecting the tile edge with something like Schluter SCHIENE. You'll want to test drive this first to make sure you could still remove the DW for servicing. But I'm betting you could tile flush with the toe-kick cover and by tipping the DW back up slightly, pull it out far enough for the tub lip on top to clear the counter top, then slide it on out. Worth a try?? Waterproofing the "deck" below might be worthwhile (a coin-toss in my opinion), either a membrane or paint-on.

Other's will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I would do/or the direction I would head.

08-06-2004, 10:33 AM
Thanks, Mike, Todd and Eric. Seems like a membrane would be good. I'd favor a paint on version over a system, mainly because I can buy Red Guard locally. The other reason is that this room is very non-square, no right angles and lots of nooks and odd corners. Cutting stuff to correct size would be a pain.

My fear with stuff like Red Guard was that it feels so soft and it would let go of its adhesion over the years. But may be I am too paranoid about that. This is my first floor tile project in a wood frame house. With the brick and concrete buildings there were never any cracks since they had strong metal mesh embedded. Wish they had done this in our mud bed ;-).

One expert suggested Semco but nobody around here knows that. So it seems Red Guard is the only paint-on choice I have.

Mike, the Schiene is a great product and I have used that before for a nice posh ending of a tile field. The brass one looks like royalty stuff if you polish it once in a while.

Regards, Joerg.