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Bobbytee
07-11-2019, 10:46 AM
We are having our master bath redone and seeing an issue with the Schluter trim on the shower niche. Specifically the corners. Honestly, I was expecting mitered corners (the contractor never showed us any options), but they are using these corners and we are not pleased with the look. Besides the fact that the corner pieces appear to have a different finish (more silver) than the trim pieces, the fit and tightness do not look right to us. I'm happy to go to mitered corners, but as the contractor felt these looked good as is, I wonder about that as well. Can I get any input on these corners and what I should be expecting? Thanks in advance!
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makethatkerdistick
07-11-2019, 10:51 AM
That's a pretty lousy contractor who uses the wrong finish. Besides, they don't look like they're the right ones and/or are placed awkwardly, almost protruding. Are they put in with the back facing out? I've never used them and have mitered my Schluter profiles instead. Usually, they look good when done right.

Bobbytee
07-11-2019, 11:01 AM
Thanks. I am a total layman, but I also thought it's crazy that these don't match in finish. I also question if these are even the right pieces, as it doesn't look to me that they CAN fit. Grrrr.

cx
07-11-2019, 11:22 AM
Welcome, B. :)

Looks to me like they used the wrong size corner pieces for the size Rondec you have there, not to mention the wrong finish. Appears to be 1/2" corners on a 3/8ths" Rondec or similar mismatch.

In any case, I would not find it acceptable.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Bobbytee
07-11-2019, 12:14 PM
Thanks CX! I feel like I now know more about this trim installation than my contractor! :scratch:

speed51133
07-11-2019, 12:26 PM
he used the wrong finish and the wrong size corners:bonk:

https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/schluter-us/en_US/Profiles/For-Walls/Edging-%26-Outside-Wall-Corners/Schluter%C2%AE-RONDEC/p/RONDEC?productTypeCode=I9

there are many options, look here

Bobbytee
07-14-2019, 08:00 PM
Update: Well, they worked on it and did make progress. The pieces appear to match now! But I’m not happy with the workmanship. Seems to me these corners should be perfectly aligned and smooth with the two adjoining trim pieces. Is this really that difficult? Thanks for feedback.

Bobbytee
07-14-2019, 08:08 PM
We are in the process of redoing our master bath, and putting in a brand new walk-in shower. The floor tiles are a different pattern from the wall tiles, small white squares with smaller dark points between the corners of each tile. The floor is now installed and grouted, but we feel like it’s not what we expected from the sample. The darker small pieces seem washed out and not crisp. See the photo attached for the sample compared to the reality. (The photo is in focus.) The difference is the grout. The question is, is this expected and normal? Or is this sloppy workmanship? Any feedback appreciated.

Davy
07-14-2019, 08:34 PM
Is there grout haze on the tiles?

Are the tiles porcelain or stone?

Davy
07-14-2019, 08:42 PM
Sorry, B but that looks terrible. Is that silicone I'm seeing or hot glue?

cx
07-14-2019, 09:00 PM
B, it'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. A moderator can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one.

Looks to me as though you picked the wrong tile contractor.

Bobbytee
07-14-2019, 10:41 PM
Thanks CX. Yeah, I’m getting the idea that this contractor does not have the expertise they claimed. Going to address it and insist it gets done right.

Bobbytee
07-14-2019, 10:47 PM
Sorry, B but that looks terrible. Is that silicone I'm seeing or hot glue?
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Davy


I don’t know, Davy. Looks like silicone to me. Granted this isn’t finished- needs to be grouted- but still looks sloppy to me.

Bobbytee
07-14-2019, 10:53 PM
Is there grout haze on the tiles?

Are the tiles porcelain or stone?
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Davy


Davy, I don’t know if it’s porcelain or stone, but I think stone. As for grout haze, yes I think there is some, but not that much. I am going to discuss it with them tomorrow. Thx.

Bobbytee
07-15-2019, 10:08 AM
Update on the floor tiles. While I do think they need to remove some grout haze, I think the real issue here is just the difference the grout itself makes. Here are two images, one with no grout, and one with grout. Same exact image, just with grout added digitally. I did not realize how much the grout would impact the overall contrast of the design.
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smifwal
07-15-2019, 01:01 PM
If I am understanding correctly you are talking about the grout lines themselves and not what looks like a haze (that is what it will look like if you don't clean all the grout off the tiles)since you added the grout digitally. You might want to do a dark grout since the lines empty look black and that is the look you were going for. Or maybe I am confused. Any idea how your shower was constructed? With this many aesthetic issue I would question their waterproofing practices

Elkski
07-15-2019, 02:58 PM
Those little black squares can be washed off better and that will help but yes your ungrouted sample kind of makes the black Square darker and bigger. That Niche looks terrible that Schluter trim should be flush with ALL tile surfaces ! There really was no way they could go back and fix it without taking off all the Niche wall tiles and the surrounding tiles. How is grout going to cover up that silicon or adhere to anything? However that niche picture sure makes me feel good about mine. I used quadec but it should look the same except for a rounded corner.

Bobbytee
07-15-2019, 08:41 PM
Shawn, yes and yes. I am talking about the grout lines themselves in terms of sharpness and I agree that darker grout will help. And they did leave some grout that should have been cleaned off. But I think they also did a poor job of grouting. Many of the small darker diamond accent pieces are partially covered with grout, so that they don’t even look like diamonds. See pics. Not happy. 😡


If I am understanding correctly you are talking about the grout lines themselves and not what looks like a haze (that is what it will look like if you don't clean all the grout off the tiles)since you added the grout digitally. You might want to do a dark grout since the lines empty look black and that is the look you were going for. Or maybe I am confused. Any idea how your shower was constructed? With this many aesthetic issue I would question their waterproofing practices
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Shawn

Bobbytee
07-15-2019, 08:43 PM
Agreed on all points, Teddy. And your shower niche looks great! We intend to hold firm on this and get it right. Thx!

Bobbytee
07-30-2019, 08:11 AM
We changed our minds to go from glossy hex tiles to matte for the shower floor. Our contractor is proposing a different brand of hex tile than the glossy, primarily because it's in stock and they can get it faster. I noticed that the in stock tile is about half the price of the original brand, and also that the PEI rating is 3 vs 4 on the original.

Is a PEI rating of 3 OK for a shower floor?

Thanks!

cx
07-30-2019, 08:56 AM
B, the ceramic tile industry no longer uses the PEI (Porcelain Enamel Institute) rating for the glaze on glazed ceramic tiles and has not for some years. The current standard under the requirements of ANSI A137.1 (Standard Specifications for Ceramic Tile) for glazed tiles is the Visible Abrasion Classification with classes O thru V.

A glazed tile previously calssified as meeting PEI 3 would be adequate for your shower floor use if you wanted a glazed tile there, which I would not recommend. Wet tile floors are slippery enough without being glazed. A Visual Abrasion Classification of II (Residential), or even I (Light Residential), would be adequate for a shower floor in my estimation.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Bobbytee
08-01-2019, 07:56 AM
Thanks for the input, CX. Here's the tile we are considering, which is porcelain:

https://www.flooranddecor.com/porcelain-tile/metro-white-matte-hexagon-porcelain-mosaic-100139260.html

I don't see any ANSI info (is that only for ceramic). They do list PEI of 3.

cx
08-01-2019, 09:32 AM
Porcelain tile is ceramic, B. If it does not indicate compliance with ANSI A137.1 there is really no reliable way to determine what you're buying. Doesn't necessarily mean it's not good quality, just means you don't know what it is.

I worry about some of those advertisers. They do not indicate that it is a glazed tile, but still indicate an outdated PEI rating that applies only to the glaze on a ceramic tile, not to the tile itself. Not very helpful of them. You might wanna ask them about that.

My opinion; worth price charged.

speed51133
08-01-2019, 10:37 AM
That is good to know. Pretty sure Floor and Decor use PEI ratings on almost ALL their tile.

https://www.flooranddecor.com/quarry-tile/colonial-gray-quarry-tile-100593037.html#prefn1=peiRating&prefn2=productType&prefv1=5%7C4%7C3%7C2%7C1&prefv2=Quarry&sz=120&showBrand=true&start=1

this tile for example is a quarry tile, which is not glazed, and still uses PEI rating.

just googling pei ratings, there looks to be a great deal of misinformation out there....

Bobbytee
08-02-2019, 08:04 AM
Thanks Mike and CX! I had a friend in the remodeling biz look at the tile and he said it is perfectly adequate for this use.

Bobbytee
08-02-2019, 08:33 AM
We are reviewing final details of the job and one thing stood out to us. The grout in the bathroom floor tiles seems low in many places. Our tile is not 'cushioned', so the edges are very crisp. Not only can you feel that very clearly when walking in bare feet, the grout in many places just looks too low, already collecting dirt in the grout lines. See images. The contractor did acknowledge that there are low spots and is going to regrout as needed. Question: How low is too low? Should the grout be almost flush to the tile surface?

Thanks!

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makethatkerdistick
08-02-2019, 09:56 AM
Almost flush is hard to achieve. But yours looks a tad low from the pictures.
Rectified tiles are more difficult as they have these sharp edges. If they're flat, this shouldn't be too hard on your feet, though. The more narrow the grout joint, the less sharp they'll feel.

The problem with regrouting is that you have to remove the grout to a certain depth so that the new grout can take hold. If your contractor used a cement grout, he cannot just "top off" the existing grout. That won't hold up.

As an amateur who's grouted a handful of times, I can say that grouting is a bit of an art form. It's not an exact science and requires tactile skill.

Davy
08-02-2019, 06:20 PM
Yep, what Wolfgang said. Tiles grout differently depending on how porous they are, the width of the joint, the type grout used, etc.

What grout was used?

Bobbytee
08-03-2019, 08:20 AM
Thanks guys. I don’t know what grout was used. But I can check. They went over it again and it’s generally better, but I’m really questioning the consistency overall. In certain spots, the grout is low, and in others it’s high. I’m also wondering about the level of some of the tiles. Obviously, there can be slight variances, but what is acceptable and what is unacceptable? See the photos below. Thanks again for any input.

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cx
08-03-2019, 08:27 AM
If your grout joint width is less than 1/4" tile industry standards (ANSI A137.1, 4.3.7) say the acceptable lippage is 1/32nd of an inch "in addition to the inherent warpage of tile manufactured in accordance with ANSI A137.1" Not always an easy thing to determine, but it can be done.

Grout joints wider than that allow 1/16th" lippage as above.

Bobbytee
08-03-2019, 10:00 AM
Thanks CX. Sorry for those pics being upside down. Don’t know why that happened!

So, 1/32” = .031”. That one pic shows that one tile is about the width of a quarter above the adjacent tile. A quarter is .069” thick. So that tile is off more than twice the allowance in the standard, not considering the “inherent warpage” note, correct?

cx
08-03-2019, 10:23 AM
If your grout joints are less than 1/4" wide. And you cannot not consider the tile warpage.

Your tiles are advertised to meet the requirements of A137.1?

What size are they?

Bobbytee
08-03-2019, 06:45 PM
Tiles are 12" x 24" and grout joints are 1/8".

cx
08-03-2019, 07:58 PM
And how about the compliance with the ANSI standard?

Have you attempted to determine the flatness of the installed tiles?

Have you any extra tiles from the batch that was installed?