Taming the beast! The monster that is Flexcolor 3D Mapei [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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Elkski
06-24-2019, 11:02 AM
I read where another poster refered to flexcolor 3D as "a a different kind of beast". I agree so much. It is like the beauty and the beast. on flat tile maybe this is not that big of deal but when you are talkin about wavy Subway class this beauty turns into an ugly beast. my first sample board was an utter failure in trying to remove the excess and it was less than one square foot in size. my second attempt was a little better and included a little patch where I taped each tile edge. My fallback was ultracolor plus fa White, but the test board results said I must go with flexcolor 3D. So two hours of taping 25 of 110 tiles. This is my initial report and results.

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Elkski
06-24-2019, 11:06 AM
I can only seen to upload 3 pics at one time?
I let certain areas dry, wiping them down the best I can but trying to leave the joints very full. There are many different dryness steps where you need to wipe and shape with one step near the end getting rid of the protruding sandpaper like big glass beads.

Elkski
06-24-2019, 11:10 AM
More.

Elkski
06-24-2019, 11:45 AM
It does sparkle and shine.

Metropolitan Ceramics
06-27-2019, 06:51 AM
I was at MAPEI when 3D was being developed. Some rubber cement on the tile faces can also be used instead of tape when you're dealing with 3D surfaces like this glass or many types of stone. A grout bag instead of a float can also help. The less you get on the surface, the less you have to remove. When it does come time to remove the haze, a citrus cleaner designed for adhesives (Goof Off, Good Gone, etc) does a much better job than water. Great looking install!

MAPEI - Technical Service
06-27-2019, 07:10 AM
That final product looks fantastic Teddy!

With some of the more ambitious tiles out in the world today, it does certainly take some creativity during the installation process to make everything look great and save yourself from headaches. I'm glad you found a system to cut those headaches off at the pass.

Again; great work sir!

Elkski
06-27-2019, 07:18 AM
Thanks guys. It is a great look.
Holden,. I was disappointed to find out I could not use Flexcolor 3D in my steam shower or near a fireplace. I'm the kind of guy who likes to know the reason behind directions and rules. can you tell us why a worm location is a problem for flexcolor 3D?

speed51133
06-27-2019, 07:37 AM
I was at MAPEI when 3D was being developed. Some rubber cement on the tile faces can also be used instead of tape when you're dealing with 3D surfaces like this glass or many types of stone. A grout bag instead of a float can also help. The less you get on the surface, the less you have to remove. When it does come time to remove the haze, a citrus cleaner designed for adhesives (Goof Off, Good Gone, etc) does a much better job than water. Great looking install!

FYI, Goof Off is NOT a citrus cleaner. It used to by Xylene until California had a problem with it few years ago. It is now essentially acetone. It will dissolve plastics, is flammable, and toxic.

Not saying don't use it, but I would not apply it as freely or liberally as I would a citrus cleaner.

cx
06-27-2019, 09:35 AM
My container of Goof Off says it contains "benzyl alcohol, ethanol and glycol ethers."

speed51133
06-27-2019, 09:43 AM
how old is it? what "model" is it? Aerosol?

Just google search "what is goof off made of". It is hard to get a real, current answer. This database is ran by the US Dept. of health and Human services, which I presume is accurate as it was updated in 2019. It lists it as 90-95% xylene, which is interesting. I read on many other websites that it was reformulated for California. Maybe they sell a specific SKU just for California??? At any rate, I would not use it interchangeably with Goo Gone, which makes MANY MANY different models and formulas, some of which use citrus. Xylene though, is nasty shit.
https://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=7015003

Methoxydiglycol 000111-77-3 1.0-5.0
Xylene (mixed isomers) 001330-20-7 90-95

cx
06-27-2019, 09:53 AM
Perhaps a few months old, Mike. Spray bottle.

speed51133
06-27-2019, 10:20 AM
the spray actually has a unique formula. Looks safer. ANYWAYS, my point was Goof Off and Goo Gone are not similar and Good Off is not citrus. I know people think of citrus cleaners as safe and only as harsh as lemon juice. Below is what the spray version is (at least in 2015). At least you are not using xylene ;). I have a pregnant wife in the home, xylene is a concern for me:
https://www.whatsinproducts.com//brands/show_msds/1/17123

100-51-6 Benzenemethanol {Benzyl alcohol} <10.0 % DN3150000
2568-90-3 1,1'-[Methylenebis(oxy)]dibutane <10.0 % NA
27177-77-1 Benzenesulfonic acid, dodecyl-, potassium salt <10.0 % DB6820000
112-34-5 Diethylene glycol monobutyl ether
{2-(2-Butoxyethoxy)ethanol {(a glycol ether)}

< 5.0 % KJ9100000

Additional Chemical Specific percentage of composition is being withheld as a trade secret.
Information

Elkski
06-27-2019, 12:10 PM
I thought all those Goo b gone cleaners were safe and nearly the same thing. this grout is kind of like a glue so probably do pecan wood work but normally the finger now or a razor blade works pretty good. If it's not too hard a white glass ok scrubby with water works with elbow grease.

Gusdog
06-27-2019, 04:06 PM
I just did a glass backsplash with the Flexcolor 3D. We love the results but I found we could only do about 2 to 3 sq. ft. before stopping to clean. By the end of the backsplash I had a fairly good system worked out but I probably will not use it again unless the project is very small.

John

Elkski
06-28-2019, 06:00 AM
John, What size tiles in the 2-3 sq ft? Mine were 3x12 so in 1 sq ft that's 7 linear feet of lines. With this time consuming tape method I didn't have to spend to much time on clean up. More just wipe until joints looked good and no deep puddles next to the lines. With the waves I couldn't help but leave deep puddles. A few minutes later ,when it had a non tacky skin, I could peel off the tape and then push it around and Pat down any lippage. A bit later I washed it to knock off high spots and the glass beads. I swear I was chewing on glass beads that night. ??? Funny a few days after I had a bad dream where I had big chunks of glass in my mouth.

MAPEI - Technical Service
06-28-2019, 07:15 AM
Thanks guys. It is a great look.
Holden,. I was disappointed to find out I could not use Flexcolor 3D in my steam shower or near a fireplace. I'm the kind of guy who likes to know the reason behind directions and rules. can you tell us why a worm location is a problem for flexcolor 3D?

Teddy, Flexcolor 3D (and CQ) use acrylic technology in their makeup, which is not incredibly heat-resistant, and will ultimately lead to softening of the joints. In the case of a steam shower/sauna, you have the one-two-punch of heat and high moisture, which will soften the grout even sooner.

Cement grout stands as the best heat-resistant option out there, followed by epoxy which has a limit of around 212 degrees F (our epoxies do, that is).

I hope that helps!

Gusdog
06-28-2019, 07:46 PM
Teddy,
Our backsplash was more of a traditional mosaic. Alternating 1" and 1/2" wide with varying lengths so lots of grout joints. Went through 1 and a 1/2 tubs of grout for a total area of 18" x 16 feet. My wife really liked the end results but with the glitter look I just don't think I would use it in a bathroom. When I get to the main bathroom this winter we will probably use the Flexcolor cq for a more traditional look.

John