ANSI 136.1 Type 1 - Tile Adhesive and Marble [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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maverick24
01-06-2017, 12:57 AM
Hi All,

Long story short, I've been busy at work and decided to hire a tile contractor to complete my shower/tub surround with 3x6 honed marble.

I came home tonight to find that he likely used Tile Adhesive instead of thinset. I will confirm this with him in the morning but almost certain I'm correct. Areas of exposed adhesive are still wet 6 hours later and he was able to tile 75sqft in 5 hours with these small tiles (maybe that's standard for a pro?)

Needless to say, I'm extremely angry but don't know if I can refuse to pay him as the Adhesive will likely meet the ANSI requirement. I can't find the language behind ANSI 136.1 but am curious what it says about marble and adhesives. I'm hoping that the adhesive only meets that requirement with ceramic. Regardless, I think I'm going to eat the $800 in marble tile and rip out the walls and do it properly myself. Your thoughts?

Additional info: GoBoard substrate taped/redgard at seams

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CaliGrown
01-06-2017, 07:57 AM
Looked at the specification sheet for Mapei's premixed adhesive. It's approved for wet areas, but I'd never use any type of mastic in a wet area.

However, it is not approved for use with natural stone, as is stated in the product limitations section. And it is not recommended to be used over waterproof membranes.

Here's a link to the product information:
http://www.mapei.com/public/CA/products/Type_1_TDS_EA.pdf

I'd find the brand he used and pull up that products information sheet and point out the limitations.

CaliGrown
01-06-2017, 08:00 AM
Redguard only at the seams? Is there a vapor barrier behind the wall substrate?

If you elect to remove the tiles, mastic comes off fairly easily and can be washed from the tiles with some effort.

maverick24
01-06-2017, 09:01 AM
Thanks Chris. I'll be sure to check the manufacturing specs of the exact product. The goboard is a waterproof foam board.

jadnashua
01-06-2017, 12:35 PM
Some mastics are known to stain a porous stone like marble, even if it did hold well. Often, it ends up more expensive than a quality thinset, so the savings is in cleanup and mixing (i.e., time). I'd be surprised if it was specified over a waterproof surface like that foam board even if it was okay for marble. Let us know once you find out exactly what was used.

cx
01-06-2017, 02:36 PM
Christian, the ANSI A136.1 is a standard only for ceramic tile and does not address the installation of natural stone at all. You'll need to consult the MIA specs for that and I don't have that at hand.

But, as previously stated, you might find that the manufacturer of your particular organic adhesive restricts the use with natural stone tiles.

I would recommend you invite your tile contractor to show you in writing where the product manufacturer recommends the use of the product in your application. He is supposed to be the informed professional in your contract agreement, not you.

Unless he used thinset mortar and alkali-resistant mesh tape in the joints in your GoBoard before applying RedGard, he didn't do that correctly per the manufacturer's instructions.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
01-06-2017, 06:51 PM
I believe he's violated two of the limitations spelled out in the link in post #2.

Goboard is a waterproof foam board- sort of like Kerdi board or Wedi board. (redgard on seams is ok according to goboard instructions)

Also it's natural stone.

The Mapei reps are active on this board but it's the weekend and they may not check in until next week. But you can always call the tech dept.

191745

Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
01-06-2017, 06:53 PM
Also the good thing about mastic over goboard is that it won't dry fast at all. So you can probably remove all the marble with no problems and clean the mastic off and reuse the pieces. Seriously.

cx
01-06-2017, 08:35 PM
How do we know it was MAPEI's product that was used?

CaliGrown
01-06-2017, 09:15 PM
We don't, still waiting to hear back from OP. I cited Mapei's Type 1 as a general reference and noted the limitations stated in relation to the OP's situation.

maverick24
01-07-2017, 11:39 PM
Thanks all for the replies. He used Custom AcrylPro. I checked the manufacturing specs and apparently is "suitable" for small format marble tiles and tub surrounds. I emailed custom and also confirmed it was appropriate for Goboard.

That said, I am still unhappy and did communicate that to the contractor but I should have made it clear that I wanted him to use thinset. Lesson learned...

As for the substrate, he used thinset with the approved tape and then waterproofed with redgard.

CaliGrown
01-08-2017, 09:46 AM
Well at least you know it's approved by the manufacturer. Funny to me that thinset would be used to fill the board seams but not to set the tile ( I love to mix thinset, it's easy to do and smells good to me lol )

Regardless, seems that things were done in accordance with manufacturer's guidelines. I was proven wrong about the mastic for your application and jumped the gun with providing another product's restrictions.

Hope your installation looks good and holds up well.