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sepulchral
04-29-2014, 07:28 AM
Guys, I'm a home owner with very little genuine ideas for tiling. My wife picked out 12"x24" Anesi carmel porcelain, and 12"x12" Icy Mist mosaic, and 1" thick 6x14 Ledge stone (to be used on shower seat face)

was curious what the preference was to my designs below - or if anyone had a more creative idea that would yield better results.

these images were scaled in autocad and layered in photoshop

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Lakee911
04-29-2014, 07:59 AM
Welcome, Michael!

I like the first one.

How are you planning to waterproof your new shower?

Houston Remodeler
04-29-2014, 08:31 AM
Michael,

I can't design my way out of a brown paper bag, so I default to the simplest, cleanest design.

And what Jason asked about your choice of waterproofing.

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 08:57 AM
Well i've done the preslope mortar bed, membrane, top mud bed sloped... was going to thinset/fiber tape the seams in the durrock then use some redguard on joints/seams, maybe the lower 12" of the shower, and cover all the niches entirely..

Why do you ask?

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 09:03 AM
My wife likes the first design - do you guys see any issue with usin the ledgestone in the shower (face of the seat)? the only thing is it doesn't have grout lines... not sure what to do about the joints..

By the way is there a cost effective means to drilling clean holes in 1/4" porcelain tile?

i need to drill 1" holes all the way to 2" holes. dry is preferred

Lakee911
04-29-2014, 09:19 AM
was going to thinset/fiber tape the seams in the durrock then use some redguard on joints/seams, maybe the lower 12" of the shower, and cover all the niches entirely..

You'll want to apply Redgard over the entire surface of the walls and niches. Concrete backerboard is NOT waterproof. It might be immune to damage, but it'll leak like a sieve.

Surface applied liquid membranes are prone to installation error. Follow manufacturer's directions to the T and make sure you have a wet film gauge to check the amount you're putting on.


Why do you ask?

We like to give full-encompassing holistic advice here at the JB forums. Not only do we want your shower to look good, we want it to last for a long long time. :)

My wife likes the first design - do you guys see any issue with usin the ledgestone in the shower (face of the seat)? the only thing is it doesn't have grout lines... not sure what to do about the joints..

It's going to get dirtier than all get out and you'll have a hard time cleaning it. Some recommend pressuring washing periodically. Ideally one has a smooth and easily cleaned surface in the shower.


By the way is there a cost effective means to drilling clean holes in 1/4" porcelain tile?

i need to drill 1" holes all the way to 2" holes. dry is preferred


You could get some diamond bits for your drill or dremel ... someone else will chime in here.

Where are the holes on the face of the tile (middle or edge) and what for?

Jason

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 10:28 AM
Damn i had no idea i had to redgard the walls too... is that normal practice or is it the "extra mile"? is there a better less expensive underlayment/membrane product?

Lakee911
04-29-2014, 10:45 AM
Standard industry practice.

Sure. You can place 6mil plastic behind the CBU and make sure that it drapes down over the pan liner. Anything that can get through the tile/grout and CBU will hit the liner and roll down the back and end up on the liner where it can make its way to the drain.

You don't want to use both a liquid applied surface membrane and the plastic though. Then you get a moisture sammich which cannot easily dry out and that's bad.

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 10:51 AM
I used 4mil plastic stapled to the studs It does drape down into the membrane as you said... in that case do you think i should just redgard from 4ft down and the entire niche?

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 11:06 AM
Got a pretty nice Chinese waterfall shower kit (no sarcasm)... the mixing/diverting valve assembly has three knobs... wasn't sure whether i should grind a rectangular cutout in a tile or cut three holes.. please see picture.

For what its worth the trim plate didn't come with a gasket, so i'll probably need to silicaulk it. Would like to know what the pros would do to seal this off. It looks as if i need to cut three holes for each knob, judging from the picture.. Not sure what the two anchoring screws go to

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 11:09 AM
Better Picture

Lakee911
04-29-2014, 11:13 AM
Does your plastic go all the way to the ceiling? Generally you don't want to do both surface applied and the plastic for the reason I mentioned before. Some special considerations may be needed in the niche, though. Someone will be along who can better answer that.

I see you've got some fasteners on your curb. It looks like you've penetrated the liner when you attached the CBU. That's a recipe for failure right there. No fasteners go through the liner except up top where it's tacked to the studs.

How did you attach your CBU down below around the liner?

Lakee911
04-29-2014, 11:19 AM
Grinding a rectangular recess in the tile is going to be very tedious. Do you have installation instructions for the valve? If not, I'd contact the manufacturer about how they expect you to seal it. Generally, I'm a fan of as few holes as possible.

You might try removing the knobs and seeing if any disassembly reveals any answers on how to mount it.

Is this about the same shower you're constructing in your other thread? If so, I'm sure a mod will belong to combine the threads. We like to keep all questions about a project in a single thread that way all information necessary is right there in one spot.

04Rdking
04-29-2014, 11:27 AM
I'm trying to figure out how that thing works.....:scratch:

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 11:30 AM
Seller doesnt write good english... I think i'm on my own... there is a black rubber grommet between the trim plate and the knob valve trim ( you can see it in the second picture)

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 11:34 AM
no screws below the 6" mark...

so screwing the cbu into the curb was what a local contractor suggested He do... then seal it with redgard... I'd like to think its not a complete failure Should i pull up that strip of CBU and seal the pvc membrane holes and do something differently?

I'm all ears..

Thanks

nelsonkoehn
04-29-2014, 11:50 AM
Looks to me like three little holes would like really nice.

But the I'm over here and your over there and I can't see it too good from that far away. Probably make a difference how it all come apart! :)

From over here that plumbing stub up and down look pretty close to the trim to get a substrate and tile into :shrug:

Richard Tunison
04-29-2014, 11:54 AM
I thought the same thing Nelson. That thing has got me stumped.

Richard Tunison
04-29-2014, 12:09 PM
I'd pull the cbu off of the curb and seal the holes as you said and then build the curb like this,,,,,,

http://www.johnbridge.com/how-to/shower-curb/

Your liner is so far up the walls,,,,,,,,did you notch the studs to accommodate the liner and it's associated corner folds,,,,,,set back the blocking for the same reason? Did you use dam corners where you had to cut the liner over the curb and also notch the jams where the liner and dam corner will be. Did you protect the weep holes in the drain so they didn't fill with mud?

Make sure and waterproof the seat very well,,,,,,applying the redgard as per the directions. Niche also. Do not redgard the walls where you have poly.

Lakee911
04-29-2014, 12:21 PM
Bill, From what I can gather, it appears to be temperature control on the right and on off (maybe with volume control) in the middle and diverter valve on the left.

Nelson/Richard, think maybe this is part of another assembly and not meant for this application?

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 12:27 PM
Yes to the weep holes, Yes to the blocking (used 2x6's), Looks like i need to dam two corners if i pull up the CBU.



So what is the likelihood of failure / water penetration if i just redgarded everything with 3+ coats granted JB's writeup is the superior method? Just a probing question

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 12:42 PM
The seller has pictures of this thing installed on tile, so I emailed him for advice. I ordered a 10piece diamond hole saw set in a wooden box for $50 off amazon.. Got pretty good reviews for infrequent use (hopefully they can sharpen like blades)

Richard Tunison
04-29-2014, 12:48 PM
hopefully they can sharpen like blades

Nope,,,,,,,,once the diamonds are worn down they are toast. :complain:

Richard Tunison
04-29-2014, 12:59 PM
I hope you don't think I'm trying to degrade your work,,,,, but we like to see things done correctly. :)

Because you didn't carry the liner around the face of the jamb you will have nothing to stick the dam corners to unless you remove the cbu and adhere another piece of liner.

The jamb/curb area is the No. 1 area that fails in showers percentage wise. The cbu will wick water out of the mud bed and start rusting your fasteners leaving enough room for water to eventually find the wood in your curb and then tiles start getting loose, but it's your house and you can do as you please.:yeah:

As a note, the dam corners shown are not in notches as those walls were to be floated with mud.

sepulchral
04-29-2014, 01:48 PM
I want to do it right and I'm thankful for the information


I have extra membrane ican use to do as you say...

Would you suggest any alternate approaches such as the 8" x 10" KERDI overlayed on the curb as an alternate approach??

Richard Tunison
04-29-2014, 02:13 PM
Kerdi is a system where all of the components must tie together. You would have had to have started with a kerdi drain,,, kerdi on the floor and then tie in the curb to the floor.

04Rdking
04-29-2014, 03:00 PM
I think you may be right Jason. When I first looked at it, the 2 fittings on the right had me cornfused. Seems it would be best to mount vertically??? With the diverter at the bottom??? :scratch::scratch:

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 06:28 AM
Seller just sent me a bunch of useless photos and never answered my question

It really looks like I need to plan for a rectangular cutout. The valve body looks like it mounts to a brace via the two screw holes near the main water inlet mixing valve

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 06:43 AM
Here are instructions... looks like a rectangular cutout, hwere the chrome steel plate is sealed with silicone against the tile

sancyk
04-30-2014, 07:46 AM
As Nelson mentionned, how will you get the substrate and tile between the valve body and trim ? Doesn't look like much space there.

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 07:57 AM
Fortunately there is room for adjustment that the image does not show.. see this picture

Lakee911
04-30-2014, 09:32 AM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but how do you tighten that nut on the back from the front side once installed?

Maybe it goes like this...

When doing the rough plumbing install the valve w/o knobs or escutcheon. Make very sturdy--brace plumbing in all directions inside wall. Cut three slightly oversized holes (enough to accommodate the valve and the nuts) and install the tile. Adjust nuts so they're flush with the surface of the tile. Silicone the crap out of the back of the escutcheon and smoosh it into place. Install the knobs. Pray it works and if it does, pray it works forever because the chance of finding a replacement part is slim to none.

If you've got a cheap valve with the on/off/volume located after the temperature adjustment, make sure the valve isn't causing a cross connect between the hot/cold. If it does, it could become a mixing valve for every other faucet in the house which probably isn't desirable.

Make sure you save a few extra tiles so if you rip it out later you can patch it up nice.

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 09:47 AM
The back of the wall this valve goes in will be wide open prior to tiling so I'll have complete access to the nuts and all fittings

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 11:19 AM
I installed an Oatey membrane at the drains properly with pebbles a the weep holes and then did my final mud bed. Unfortunately in my week of research and viewing diagrams, I missed the fact that a simple water holding test is performed. Can I / should I still perform the test after the final sloped mortar bed is placed, or will I screw up the mortar?

Let me know what you think, :shrug:


Have to patch and dam some corners at the curbing because i followed the advice of the plumbing red neck at my local Lowes

jadnashua
04-30-2014, 11:28 AM
Well, had you done one prior to the dam corners, it would have failed miserably. It's always a good idea, and if the mudbed has cured for at least a few days (a week would be more than enough), it won't hurt it (it's good insurance, and required many places), but also keep in mind that the test will be much harder to judge. You'll have to keep filling it up as the mudbed gets saturated over hours until it stops, then fill to below the curb, and then wait. Depending on the size of the shower, you might get a gallon or so to be absorbed into the mudbed, but it won't happen immediately. Conversely, it will also take awhile for that moisture to weep out. As long as there's no standing water, you can add tile, but if you're using a modified thinset, it will take days longer before I'd consider grouting...and maybe longer than that as if the setting bed is still damp, it won't allow the modified thinset to dry which it needs to do in addition to curing.

04Rdking
04-30-2014, 11:42 AM
Michael,

You most definitely want to do a leak test. The way I did my pan, the folds, dam corners, no cuts below the curb height, etc, I was 100% sure that thing was rock solid..... NOPE!!! I messed up and installed the adapter for the drain upside down. Now granted you may not have the same scenario, but it just makes sense to do the test. If I had passed on doing the test, I would have been tearing out a brand new shower and tiles, and everything else after the very first use.... Just my .02

Oh, and when it comes bLowes or Homer's the only questions you should ask are "where would I find....."? I have found this to be true with just about everything, not just tile....

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 12:03 PM
Im just worried that my test fails every time because my mortar bed may continuously saturate. My shower has two 2" drains because it has two hot&cold supplies so I am guessing I have to buy two "plugs"


Can i patch the CBU screw holes with pieces of membrane and PVC cement?

04Rdking
04-30-2014, 12:20 PM
The mud bed will only absorb X amount of water. After that, it should stabilize. I will let the pro's chime in on this one as I ain't one..... :calm:

Richard Tunison
04-30-2014, 12:24 PM
Can i patch the CBU screw holes with pieces of membrane and PVC cement?

Yes.

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 12:35 PM
Its a shame i found this forum yesterday versus 7 days ago.. Only positive note i can't tile right away anyways so the deck mud can dry out.. just hope i don't have any leaks at the drain flanges

04Rdking
04-30-2014, 12:36 PM
Be sure to use the correct cement, Oatey X-15 or equivalent. Do NOT use PVC cement for pipes.

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 12:47 PM
The redneck from lowes told me pipe pvc cement is good for membranes too... Not surprising he was wrong

NotSure
04-30-2014, 01:50 PM
I don't know if you planned to use RedGard (or a similar waterproofing method) on your Durock...but if you do....don't let anyone tell you to apply that over your final mud bed.

I had such a hard time getting my pre-slope bed correct that once I did and got my PVC liner installed and leaked checked successfully, I hired a tile contractor to do the final mud bed. He laid down a nice smooth final bed but failed to use pea gravel or anything else to preserve the weep holes. I found this out after asking him what he did to preserve the weep holes and his reply was "Your weep holes are fine." When I asked if he used pea gravel or anything else, he admitted that he did not. So I chipped up his work around the drain and the weep holes were packed solid with mud. Also, He also told me it was OK to use RedGard over top the final mud bed. I listened to his advice but should not have.

Not trying to hijack your thread......you mentioned the bad advice you received a Lowes, I am suggesting that it may be worth coming back to this forum and verifying what you are being told elsewhere. People on this forum are really helpful and they don't try to make you feel foolish if you make a mistake.

It's better to verify something up front than to ask how to fix something...that is what I have learned during my current project.

Good luck.

Steve in Denver
04-30-2014, 01:52 PM
Oh, and when it comes bLowes or Homer's the only questions you should ask are "where would I find....."? I have found this to be true with just about everything, not just tile....

I know it's popular to bash the big box store employees - and usually it's justified, but I have to add that sometimes they can be quite knowledgeable and helpful. A few examples come to mind:

1. At my local HD we have a master plumber who works the aisles. He's an old timer and his knees went out on him, so I don't think he is active anymore...but a great source of knowledge.

2. A guy in the same store, electrical department...I don't know what his training or experience is, but he always has a quick answer to my electrical problems and is on top of the details pretty well. (advising on box fill, conduit fill and other code related things)

3. I overheard a guy in plumbing once going over (in detail) shower construction (in particular the waterproofing steps) with some customers. I don't know if he was getting all the points right or not (sounded good to me) but it did seem that he potentially saved the customers a big headache as their contractor was probably doing it wrong.

So while I generally try to avoid getting advice from the employees (it is very often crap), I have learned that some of them are actually pretty darned good and if you can filter out the bad ones you can get some quality from the employees walking the aisles.

Just my two cents.

jadnashua
04-30-2014, 01:56 PM
Holes through a liner can't easily be waterproofed by a surface applied patch over cbu. Only if the entire surface is waterproofed can you make holes in arbitrary places. CBU is not waterproof or vapor proof. It is, however, stable and not affected by water, plus, it expands and contracts about the same as tile, so it makes for a stable substrate for its use. Don't let anyone tell you that tile and grout is waterproof...it is not...similar to cbu, it typically isn't harmed by being wet, but even a porcelain tile will absorb a little water.

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 02:00 PM
The lowes employee i mentioned was very accurate with 80% of what he told me.. that is why i listened... so I guess while not all his facts were straight, the majority were pretty sound.. I called Durrock and they told me not to extend the boards into the mud bed (leave a 1/4" gap)... The redneck said the same thing.

Wasn't trying to bash Cletus Ray Cyrus, his methods may be tried & true, i just don't want to smash my pride by building a faulty shower containment

Richard Tunison
04-30-2014, 02:00 PM
Thank you for the correction and clarification on the PVC cement Bill as I didn't catch it. :yo:

sepulchral
04-30-2014, 02:03 PM
jadnashua: I was going to remove the CBU and patch the holes on the top of the curb

jadnashua
04-30-2014, 02:09 PM
Ah, that can be done, but then, no cbu on the curb and NO holes within 3" of the top of the curb (which means the liner must go higher so you can tack it in place).

A curb in a conventional shower requires some lath over the liner (only tacked low on the OUTSIDE near the floor), and then either you can pack more deckmud to form it, or if you want it thinner, use something like brick mortar (easier, and stronger, and you can do it thinner). There's info in the 'Liberry' on this you should read, if you haven't already.

04Rdking
04-30-2014, 02:11 PM
I know it's popular to bash the big box store employees - and usually it's justified, but I have to add that sometimes they can be quite knowledgeable and helpful. A few examples come to mind:

I know a blanket statement is a bad thing. I am sure there are some good knowledgeable folks at some of the stores. You just have to be careful and if nothing else, just double check the advice given. I have had some good adice on certain things. I have had more bad advice on other things.... YMMV

Higher Standard Tile
05-01-2014, 02:08 AM
Micheal how are you going to waterproof the bench? It looks like you have vinyl liner behind the Durock but you had to screw holes in the membrane to attach the Durock.

I would recommend a surface applied waterproof membrane over the entire bench and up the walls. Install after you fill all the joints in the durock with thinset and treat the joints with alkaline resistant mesh tape.

I prefer Laticrete Hydroban but Custom Redgard can work for that application and is available at HD. Mapei Aquadefense is available at the Lowes in my area, but in VA it may be different.

sepulchral
05-01-2014, 05:23 AM
Isaac:

Also, bench has 0.5"/ft slope

Thanks for that... I talked to Custom about my bench, shower, etc.. was going to perform your exact recommendation... How is MAPEI aquadefense?? Is it just as effective (or more inexpensive) in comparison to redgard?

BTW are there any alternates to using Metal Lathe? For some reason my lowes has none on hand...

Higher Standard Tile
05-02-2014, 03:27 AM
Micheal. I know HD out here sells lathe and most lumberyards or mason supply places do too.

I've never used Aquadefense, but I think it is similar in cost to Redgard and meets the same specs.

As I said I like Laticrete Hydroban, it has a nice soothing olive green color. Morris Tile on Dabney Road should have some in stock.

Comes in 1 and 5 gallon pails.

Lakee911
05-02-2014, 04:40 AM
As I said I like Laticrete Hydroban, it has a nice soothing olive green color.


You could try lighting some aroma therapy candles while installing too! :lol2:

CCDIYer
05-03-2014, 10:18 AM
Junk that piece of Chinese garbage and go to a real plumbing supply house, not a big box, and buy yourself a quality name brand fixture. It'll cost you some dough now but will save you money and hassle in the future. As a bonus, your installation will go smoother, with instructions written so that an English speaking person can understand them. :tup1:

sepulchral
05-03-2014, 07:40 PM
Junk this for something else made in China. No thanks.


Pleasant update. Patched membrane and built a proper curb with real lath.

Happy with my work!! The lath does go up the studs 6" where I mudded over the dams

sepulchral
05-03-2014, 07:40 PM
Another pic



Curb got dusted when I was cutting durock

sepulchral
05-03-2014, 08:03 PM
I ran a membrane up the framed 2x6 bench that has a slope of 0.5"/ft. Will I be safe with red gard'ing over screw a and entire bench ?

What should I do here? I want to make what I have work

Davy
05-03-2014, 08:09 PM
All you can do at this point is Redgard the seat. The screws in the front of the seat are actually too low. They should have been three inches above the curb height. Along with the screws in the walls.

The Durock could have been run down into the floor mud to help anchor it at the bottom. Then you wouldn't need nails/screws down that low.

sepulchral
05-03-2014, 08:18 PM
I know. I called ugs about how to install the durock and they said keep it 1/4" above mud to avoid wicking. Think I'm safe with location of the screws if I red gard or should I pull em and silicon caulk the holes


Wish I found this forum earlier

Davy
05-03-2014, 08:30 PM
Well, it would probably be a PITA but you could remove the Durock and patch the holes, similar to what you did on the curb. The problem is that without the nails, the Durock won't have anything holding it at the bottom.

The Redgard really needs to cover the whole wall but I believe you said you put plastic on the studs, so that's not recommended. Just going up the walls 12 inches really doesn't do much good, may make things worse.

sepulchral
05-03-2014, 08:37 PM
Thanks Davy


Still unsure of a path forward. Are you saying red guard will cause problems??

Davy
05-03-2014, 09:01 PM
Yes and no. :D It's designed to cover the whole area or wall. Covering a small area, like the lower 12 inches doesn't help in my opinion. There will be a lot of moisture hitting the walls above that point and it can soak in and go behind the Redgard. But, if I remember correctly, you have no moisture barrier on the seat, so you may have to apply it there and overlap it onto the walls a few inches.

I would not have built a framed seat. I would have extended the liner on the floor and walls under and behind the seat area up the walls about 24 inches and built the seat out of concrete blocks. The plastic on the walls would drape down over the pan liner all the way around. That way, all the moisture in contained inside the liner.

sepulchral
05-03-2014, 09:22 PM
Membrane overlaps seat and goes up wall 8"

Davy
05-03-2014, 09:34 PM
Yep, and how many holes are in it? Do you feel like removing the Durock? You could remove it all, take a knife and cut slits all in the plastic, put the Durock back up and Redgard the walls. While the Durrock is down, patch the holes in the liner down low. I'd probably remove the liner thats on the seat and go ahead and cover it back with Durock and Redgard it real well. I know, it's a lot of work.

Lets see if someone else has a better plan, It's past my bed time and I'm running on 3 cylinders. :)

sepulchral
05-04-2014, 03:26 PM
If I patched low holes in membrane and thinsetted the durock to the mudpan would that be good along with redgard?



Would prefer not to cut the PVC membrane. I like that it covers the seat. I just want the probability if failure less than 1%.

Wish I would have done a block seat. I wish a lot of things now.

Davy
05-04-2014, 08:05 PM
They say it's never good to have two membranes but if you want to leave the liner on the seat, that's up to you. Then you can Redgard the whole shower. But, I would remove the Durock on the walls and patch those holes along the bottom. When you hang those back up, apply little blobs of thinset along the bottom of the sheets to support them.

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 05:49 AM
Is that for fear of trapping water/moisture?

Was curious (and tried searching) what is the correct way to build a framed in shower seat with durock? No membrane, just waterproofing?

Thanks by the way

04Rdking
05-05-2014, 11:52 AM
Michael,

Is this what your seat looks like under the Durock?

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 01:44 PM
Ignore shelves thats not what i used... here is framing for seat its structurally super sound... base curbing is pressure treated.

This is with a wet preslope

Richard Tunison
05-05-2014, 01:59 PM
Dang............... you don't want pressure treated lumber ANYWHERE in a tile package unless it is KDAT (kiln dried after treatment). The stuff dries and twists and shrinks and splits.......not good under tile in any circumstance.

Did you build your curb out of it?

04Rdking
05-05-2014, 02:01 PM
Well, hopefully you won't end up with something like this...

Yes, that IS standing water. Take another look at both yours and what was mine. Neither your bench, nor mine was inside of the liner area. Not good... Water WILL get behind and under that bench.

04Rdking
05-05-2014, 02:04 PM
Here is how my liner is now. It encompasses the entire floor area.

04Rdking
05-05-2014, 02:08 PM
What Richard said.... :(

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 05:17 PM
Okay so I ripped it all out I extended the pre-sloped mud pan too

Hopefully the shower God's will make this work for me



So I'm going to do a block bench seat. How far up should liner go behind the CBU. On te wall of the bench seat? should it be 6 inches higher the top of the seat??


Thanks guys


Gunna buy more liner versus patching 100 holes. Any tip on overlapping and bonding?

Also. Does Cbu extend behind concrete block or to the top of block?

NotSure
05-05-2014, 06:35 PM
I think you did the right thing.....I am doing my first shower and I've had to re-do a few things. You will sleep better at night knowing you took your time and took all necessary precautions and listened to the good advice.

I decided not to have a bench in my shower. Less potential problems and my wife and I don't really see the need. And ...my shower enclosure is not as big as yours....so that helped with the decision not to have a bench.

Do you have any niches? I wish I had purchased the pre-fab versions instead of building my own.

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 06:41 PM
Thanks

I think if you use an applied waterproofing building your own will not be a problem

Davy
05-05-2014, 06:57 PM
First, I would figure out what size the seat will be and mark the height on the studs. Keep in mind the size of the blocks you plan to use to reduce cutting. Then run the pan liner on the floor and up the walls 10 inches or more, just like a shower with no seat. Since you are using CBU, You might want to notch all the studs behind the liner from the top of the seat upward about 4 inches. Then install a separate piece of liner from the notched area down to the floor, draping it over the floor pan liner. Then drape the poly (if you still have it) over that added piece of liner. I would then hang the CBU to where the blocks will just overlap them. Keep in mind that all three sides behind the seat needs pan liner and it needs to extend past the front of the seat to the next stud. Most tile shops have 6 ft liner. That way you can do it in one piece. That's a lot to chew, I know.

This will get your whole seat inside the liner.

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 07:07 PM
Thanks.

So what fills the gap between the Cbu and back of the blocks? Can I just use masonry cement to bond blocks together?? I wander if I can cast the seat in the deck mud versus troweling deck mud - let dry - then doing seat.


One long step would be nice. So liner shall not extend to block height? Was gonna go with an 18" tall seat

Thx davy

Also after finishing the Cbu on these niches and thin setting/taping joints will redgard work well? The back of the shelves has 23/32" plywood No air gaps.

Davy
05-05-2014, 07:23 PM
I would run the CBU behind the blocks a little. In the added piece of liner behind the seat, I try to keep all my nails/staples above the seat height.

Masonry cement is fine.

Instead of making the floor pan liner come up high enough to go behind the seat, it's easier to add a separate piece. But, you can do it the way you want.

Not sure what you mean by "cast the seat in deck mud"

Davy
05-05-2014, 07:30 PM
You did mention that you called USG and they don't want the Durock into the mud bed. Then I learned heard the same thing today on another thread. So, you had it right. I don't know how they expect you to anchor it at the bottom. Bad deal in my opinion.

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 07:33 PM
The preslope slab extension is drying. When I do the final slope deck mud over the extended liner doin need to let that dry before I place the seat blocks?



Thoughts on my niches?

Davy
05-05-2014, 07:42 PM
If I understand you correctly, it doesn't matter. It's all underneath the seat. I usually build the block seat right on top of the liner and then mud the floor to the seat.

I would have left the plywood out of the backs of the niches and just thinsetted the CBU to the back side of the sheetrock from the other side. Then Redgard the whole thing.

nelsonkoehn
05-05-2014, 07:58 PM
Michael,

Just wanted to let you know that you have a lot of respect from me for the way you backed up and redid this project. :yo:

And you are in good hands with Davy helping you along. :tup1: Thanks, Davy.

And your signature line just cracks me up every time I see it. :D So what do you do in real life? :deal:

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 08:18 PM
I build and operate gas turbine power plants in real life. I'm a mechanical engineer / project manager.


Thanks. Shame on me for not reworking this earlier. It's embarrassing posting half ass work then begging for bandaid fixes

Davy
05-05-2014, 08:35 PM
Did you do away with the plastic on the studs?

sepulchral
05-05-2014, 08:56 PM
Davy: should i?

sepulchral
05-06-2014, 06:46 AM
Davy - do I need to remove the vapor barrier?


What is proper method for notching studs? Is this what you wanted to convey to me last night (excluding the new perimeter membrane segment?)

Davy
05-06-2014, 06:56 PM
You can still use the poly as long as it drapes over the two membranes.

The way you built the seat at first was going to need something over the holes that were in the liner that covered the seat. That's when I mentioned putting Redgard over the whole shower. But, that's not a good idea since you have poly on the studs. But now, the shower should be water tight and you can tile right to the CBU.

sepulchral
05-08-2014, 04:48 AM
Davy as an update, i've done everything you recommended for the seat wall and membrane extension... I overlapped the new membrane about 5" to the old and extended it out about 8" past the front of the seat on either side... Just hope my thinset skills and redgard on the niche pay off (haven't gotten to that yet).

The redneck at Lowes actually gave me 6FT of membrane for free due to my troubles. The bonding glue is terrible smelling

The seat is almost completed (will post pic when done) Was thinking of using a little lathe in the top layer of mud of the seat to help bridge the blocks together a little better.. I was frustrated when assembling the thing because the mortar wouldnt stick to the block that well - should i have used a wetter mix or moistened the block? Either way I got it to work.


With respect to notching the studs... I think i have the right tool for the job (for everything but the corners) See pic

Wanted to ask you a tiling question... do you think using the same shower wall tile on the bathroom floor looks poorly thought out?

sepulchral
05-08-2014, 07:13 AM
I really need help/ideas on how to tile this niche and make it look nice... 1x2 mosaics running vertical?

I would have like to use large segments of my 12x24 tile but i was concerned the sides not looking symmetrical

I had to keep the wall short.. my only other option is to thicken the inside of the shelves thus loosing space.

Davy
05-08-2014, 07:49 AM
I'm not a decorator but I like the look of the same tile on the bath floor that's on the shower walls.

That wall with 4 boxes is going to be hard to layout perfectly unless you built it to fit the tiles. I would probably just cut the tiles to fit the boxes. Not much else you can do that I can see. We would usually start the layout at the jamb and work towards the corner.

Is this right, you're planning to use 12x24 on the other walls and 1x2 mosaics on this one wall that has the niches?

sepulchral
05-08-2014, 11:01 AM
I was going to just use the mosaic on the inside back of the Niche pockets like many others have done on the forum

I don't know many ideas on how to frame in the niches with segments of the larger tile to make them look professional...


HF 10" Tile saw rig: (I wanted to try the ridgid blade before going to a T3 or zipper)

Davy
05-08-2014, 04:22 PM
Nothing wrong with using the mosaics on the back wall of the niches, That will look great. On the wall itself, all you can do is cut the 12x24's around the boxes. Do you have bullnose pieces to match the 12x24's?

sepulchral
05-09-2014, 04:48 AM
Yes, they are only 6x12

jondon
05-09-2014, 05:23 AM
posted by Michael:
Yes, they are only 6x12

Bullnose pieces, 6 inches wide wow never seen that. As mentioned run the 12X24's on the all and put the bullnose pieces in the side walls of the niches to meet up to the tile. Putting the mosaics in the back of the niches is the best idea vs trying to run the wall pattern through. What are you using in the base of each niche?

sepulchral
05-09-2014, 06:12 AM
could not find any nice/thick conventional material from Lowes.. Any ideas for what to use? I was just going to use segments of my 12x24 for the inside walls and top and bottom of the niches

jondon
05-09-2014, 06:56 AM
that would work but you would have unfinished edges exposed not ideal

many use Schluter profiles including myself when I don't have bullnose to go with it:)

In this niche we used the Jolly 125 bright white alum. Some of this is special order but some you can get same day.

sepulchral
05-09-2014, 07:03 AM
thanks


Where did you get those U-spacers?

jondon
05-09-2014, 07:17 AM
you can get them online from tiletools.com or other places

we call'em horseshoe spacers round here

sepulchral
05-09-2014, 03:36 PM
I should use unmodified thinset only for my shower project correct?


Made mistake of using polymer enriched thinset under my hardy board on my subfloor

Richard Tunison
05-09-2014, 03:47 PM
Using the polymer modified under the Hardi neither helped or hurt. It only provides a solid footprint for the board itself. Screws are what hold it in place.

I would use a good modified thinset to adhere your tiles to the durock. Unmodified is used (mostly) in conjunction with a surface applied membrane such as Kerdi.

sepulchral
05-09-2014, 08:05 PM
So do I use unmodified on redgard?

Davy
05-09-2014, 08:10 PM
No, use modified on Redgard.

sepulchral
05-09-2014, 08:12 PM
Can i use modified and modified on the same surface.


Davy i was gunna buy the redgard fiber tape for inside of niches. Do i really need to do this?

Davy
05-09-2014, 08:20 PM
Did you tape and thinset the joints in the CBU? I would do that and then Redgard the niches.

sepulchral
05-10-2014, 10:10 AM
Haven't taped yet but the redgard tape looks more sturdy from a crack and water resistant standpoint

sepulchral
05-11-2014, 08:24 PM
Some progress worth noting

sepulchral
05-11-2014, 08:25 PM
Niches


Had to stop taping to take wife out for m-day


What's the stainless trim called that you can inlay with tile for outside corners?

Tool Guy - Kg
05-11-2014, 08:36 PM
Are you referring to something like one of these metal profiles by Schluter (http://www.schluter.com/139.aspx)? Generically, they are called metal profile edge strips for tile.

:)

pfmez
05-11-2014, 08:37 PM
Youre probably thinking of stuff from Schluter, rondec is the round outside corner stuff, lots of stuff on their website

Sent from my GT-S7710L using Tapatalk

sepulchral
05-11-2014, 09:07 PM
Is that stocked at lowes? I wonder. Any warnings when using that trim?

jondon
05-12-2014, 03:56 AM
Big box stores do carry some Schluter profiles but limited. Take you tile with when you go to make sure it is the right thickness for the profile. Only problem is you won't be able to get outside corners for the trim or inside depending on how you are using it. These make for a nicer finish vs mitering.

sepulchral
05-18-2014, 05:18 AM
Hello. In the past ive used a wet brillo pad but i would like to know if anyone has any creative ideas for cleaning thinset.

Nearly all my grout lines are clear except a few dingleberries, however thr faces of some stone mosaic have traces of thinset .

Any thoughts on using a handheld steam cleaner and brush?

jondon
05-18-2014, 05:28 AM
I always use the large white scrubbie pads because they won't do any damage to the surface.:)

cx
05-18-2014, 02:34 PM
Michael, it'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working with and what's been previously asked and answered. We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one. :)

I like to keep a 2" paintbrush, the disposable kind, with the bristles cut to about 1" in length to help in keeping my grout joints clean. Some folks favor a tooth brush. For keeping the faces of the tiles clean I find nothing more useful than a sponge and maybe one of the new micro-fiber cloths.

sepulchral
05-18-2014, 08:32 PM
Thanks cx

Im getting the feeling my 1/4" notch trowel is undersized for big tiles. Under What circumstance should i go to for a larger not notch?

Davy
05-18-2014, 09:33 PM
I have used a 3/8 notch but you might want a 1/2 inch notch with those big 12 x 24's. You want good thinset coverage.

sepulchral
05-18-2014, 09:44 PM
Thanks davy

Is there a sealer thatll give stone mosaics a wet look? Would this need done prior to frouting?

sepulchral
06-10-2014, 09:08 PM
So i finished tiling and think it looks good. Need some serious help with grout haze and blotches on shower floor. Poor lighting led to numerous tile depressions filling with grout, etc. my fault

What should i do for this porcelain tile? Should i seal grout before anything? Would a nylon brisle brush on my drill work well?

Vinegar seems useless

sepulchral
06-10-2014, 09:11 PM
Please see other post on previous page. Need help!

sepulchral
06-15-2014, 09:32 PM
Hey guys.. the wall housing my shower valves (x2) and body sprayers (x6) and hand wand (x1) is to be the wall for an open towel/toiletry closet... The dimensions are 45" x 96"... I'd love for the wall to be a smooth, paintable panel which is easily detachable to access isolation valves (versus putting in a valve access panel) and to access the thermostatic valves which have built in screens and are 30" away from the isolation valves. I believe two access panels would look sloppy.

Does anyone have any ideas for a board that is 1/2" thick, sturdy, and smooth as drywall?

Thought about using a piano hinges but a removable panel might be better... I know this is weird, however, I would like to have access to all plumbing should the need arise.

Ideas?

Houston Remodeler
06-15-2014, 09:54 PM
Michael,

We normally take a fairly dull pencil and mark the drywall making an indentation along the lines so when painted over you can see where to cut.

If you never need to get into the wall, no harm.

If you need to get into the wall 10 years from now you'll know where to cut and worry about the access door later.