Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-18-2012, 12:48 PM   #1
kidbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 19
Different advice on Mapei thinset mortars

Hi. I'm redoing my shower/tub and bathroom floor. My shower walls are bare to the studs and I'm going to put 1/2" Durock and thinset the seams before waterproofing with Aquadefense on top of backerboard. I'm using subway tile with an accent band of glass tile mats and constructing a couple niches in the shower/tub area. I'm planning to use Mapei products since my local big box store carries these products. I've received conflicting information as to which type of Mapei thinset to use.

Two different big boxes gave me different advice for the wall mortar. One store said the Ultraflex 2 needs to be used for wall tile; otherwise I'll have to hold the tile onto the wall for a while (not as sticky as Ultraflex 1). They said the Ultraflex1 was fine for the backerboard joints and floors. They also had the Ultralite mortar too. Another large box said that Ultraflex 1 was fine for the backerboard joints and for placing wall tile.

I've done floor tile a few times but have never done wall tile. I've not used any Mapei products previously (only Versabond). I'm just looking for some advise for an amateur (I wouldn't want to use any rapid set). I don't have problem spending some extra cash if it's the right product. I'm just surprised at the differences in the explanations between the products (the prices show there is a difference). Menards had the Ultraflex 1 and 2, Ultralite, and Ultraflex RS. Lowe's didn't carry as many Mapei thinset products (not that this is bad, but I thought it was interesting and confusing that the product line varies between stores).

If someone is familiar with Mapei products, please let me know what type of thinset you use for shower wall tile (Ultrafllex 1 or 2?). Also, what thinset do you use for floor tile? I was planning to use Ultraflex 1 for backerboard joints (with fiber tape) on the wall and floor. Ultraflex 1 would also be used between the subfloor and backerboard. Thanks for any feedback!
__________________
Andy
kidbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-18-2012, 01:47 PM   #2
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
Andy, neither Ultraflex I or II are non-sag thinset mortars, so you will have to support the tiles until the thinset sets. Spacers are normally use for this, but you can use any combination of tape, spacers, pins or brads to do the job. With a surface waterproofing membrane, you obviously do not want to use pins or brads.

If not for the glass mosaics on a membrane, I'd say that Ultraflex I would do for all applications you are planning. Glass needs a bit more latex, so if money is an issue, use Ultraflex 1 for taping and mudding, and for setting most of the porcelain tiles, then switch to Ultraflex III (Ultraflex II is not recommended for glass tiles) or Mapei's Kerabond with their Keralastic admix for the glass mosaics.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 01:50 PM   #3
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 66,638
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
Welcome aboard, Andy.

One must be careful when listening to the expert in the aisle at the big box.
John Bridge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 11:53 PM   #4
kidbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 19
Thanks for the replies. It's good to know about the additional latex for the glass tile. I was planning on using spacers while I tile. Is there a good non-sag thinset, or is non-sag basically the same as rapid-set type? If using Versabond (or another type) would be a better choice, let me know. Thanks.
__________________
Andy
kidbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 02:05 AM   #5
cwilde72
Registered User
 
cwilde72's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Huron, SD
Posts: 1,052
Laticrete 4xlt is a superb non-sag thinset. Doubt you'll find it at a big box store tho. Check around your local tile stores. This is multi-purpose thinset that can be used for thin-bed or medium-bed/non-sag applications so make sure to read the directions so that it is mixed properly.
__________________
Chad Wilde
Precision Tile
Huron, SD
cwilde72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 02:31 PM   #6
kidbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 19
Shower niche with shelf

I want to build a shower niche that will be approximately 42" high by 12" wide. The shower tile will mainly be subway (3"x6") tile with a glass accent strip. The niche will use bullnose subway tile on the sides with 12x12 mosaic tile in back. I would like to use 1/2" marble for the base and 3 shelves. I am planning to slide the 1/2" shelves on top of the tile ends which line the sidewalls of the niche. Is there any reason why the shelves should also extend over the back tile? Ideally it would be nice to not mortar the shelves to the back to avoid drainage problems (no need to slope), and so the back mosaic tile may be continuous top to bottom (no cutting). The bottom of the niche will have the base slab slightly sloped for drainage.

Also, should the bottom shelf be caulked at the joints instead of grouting? If caulking, then I'm assuming this would apply to any shelf joints too? Thanks!
__________________
Andy
kidbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 03:18 PM   #7
PetrH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chilliwack, B.C.
Posts: 1,405
I would recommend using 3/4 inch marble (counter top material) and check for veins or weaknesses perpendicular to the long dimension. http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...1&d=1330291064
Attached Images
 
__________________
Petr
PetrH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #8
jwmezzanotte
Registered User
 
jwmezzanotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince Rupert BC Canada
Posts: 2,070
I was going to do my the same way as you are suggesting. I don't see an issue with it, except that maybe stuff would fall at the back of the shelf, or get caught in there. Also would be hard to clean behind the shelf. So I decided not to leave a gap.

The tile on the back of the niche carries through, the shelf is in front and held up on the sides. It buts almost tight to the back of the niche though, and I will fill that with Kera-poxy when I do the shower grout.
Regular grout is ok, I just like Kera-poxy in my showers.
Attached Images
 
jwmezzanotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 04:58 PM   #9
kidbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 19
Thanks for the replies and pictures Petr and John. I was getting a little hung-up on planning grout lines and the niche framing, but your pictures put this into perspective. Looking at pictures of similar projects really helps for getting ideas.

I'll use the thicker counter top marble. I should be able to find some good remnant marble. The marble samples I bought were actually only 3/8" thick. Can a regular tile wet saw cut 3/4" marble?

I think I'll leave a small gap in back of the shelves for water flow, and for the continuous look of the mosaic tiles. Although, I am a little concerned with cleaning etc.

Did you guys do anything special to finish the outside corners? Petr/John, both your outside corners look good so I'm just wondering if you put some type of finish strip, bullnose, or just left an infinished tile edge? I want to keep the look clean without any heavy border. If it's common to expose the edge of the side tile instead of a bullnose finish, I'll go this route.
__________________
Andy
kidbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 05:55 PM   #10
JTile
Southern Delaware Tile Contractor
 
JTile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ocean View, Delaware
Posts: 966
Quote:
I was getting a little hung-up on planning grout lines and the niche framing, but your pictures put this into perspective.
If you're using a preformed niche box, you'll be stuck with its dimensions and will have to try to place it as symmetrically as possible in your layout. If you're building it yourself.. simply make it the right size that it fits perfectly into your layout.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Justin

Kyle's Tile LLC
Ocean View, Delaware
www.KylesTile.com

JTile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 07:13 PM   #11
PetrH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chilliwack, B.C.
Posts: 1,405
here is one with what I call a "soap bridge" made of quarzite. If you have time for it you can tile up to one row short of the niche height and then build it in and waterproof. Otherwise your chances of being 1/8" off are pretty good

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...1&d=1330305135
Attached Images
   
__________________
Petr
PetrH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 07:18 PM   #12
cx
da Home-builder -- Moderator-at-Large
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 85,160
Welcome, Andy.

It'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 09:50 PM   #13
jwmezzanotte
Registered User
 
jwmezzanotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince Rupert BC Canada
Posts: 2,070
The corners on mine used a Schluter Jolly trim.
I've done it before with exposed edges of the tile. How that would look depends on the tile your using. Does the color carry through? When i do it this way I let the face tile lap over the tile of the sides of the niche tiles. Does that make sense? I don't have a pic of that.
jwmezzanotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 01:19 PM   #14
kidbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 19
Inside corners and niche question

After a little delay I'm getting ready to receive some decorative tile so I can finish this shower tile project. The information and pictures have all been really helpful. I just have a few other questions:

1) Inside corners: Does it matter if the tile overlaps the tile on the perpendicular wall when placing tile, or should you leave a gap and fill with grout. I was going to overlap the opposite wall tile but still leave a 1/16" spacing for grout, or isn't this recommended. My tile is mainly 3"x6" subway tile.

2) Niche corners and shelves: Does the same corner tiling apply to niche corners (ie overlap ok)? I was going to put the niche's bottom shelf back to the CBU and then have the back wall tile (and side wall tile) overlap overlap the bottom.

The middle shelves of the niches were going to sit on top of side wall tiles. Can these middle shelves simply sit on top of the side tiles, and then caulk the underside of shelf when finished? If I don't do this, I'll need to put a spacer between tile and shelf and hopefully get the thinset to hold the shelf until grouting.

3) Caulk or grout inside corners? ....main shower area and niches.

4) Cutting glass tile. I will be using some 2"x1" glass tile sheets 1/4" thick for decorative treatments. I've read people using a wet saw, scoring tool, or some other glass cutter for this type of cut. I have a wet saw and an ok blade that is rated for cutting my marble shelves. Any recommendations for cutting the glass tile? I don't mind buying a tool if it's reasonably priced.

Thanks!
__________________
Andy
kidbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 06:01 PM   #15
kidbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 19
Thanks Bob. That makes sense.

2) Any idea for setting a shelf (making it stick) within a niche. My plan is to set the shelf over the side tiles only and leave a gap in back (the gap won't be easy to clean but the back of the niche will have a continuous decorative tile that I don't want to cut). I think what I'll do is try and get some thinset on the ends of the marble shelf and put a spacer between the supporting tile and shelf. I'll then be able to grout the tile/shelf joint on the underside of the shelf. A previous post by PetrH has a picture and it appears that's what he did.

3) Ok

4) I'll check out a glass blade for the wet saw. Any advice for finishing the cut edge? I'll have a 6" glass mat (2"x1" tiles) ending at outside corners. I'd like to round the edges if it's possible.

Thanks.
__________________
Andy
kidbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
History / Development of Thinset Mortars Trask Professionals' Hangout 5 09-25-2010 08:51 PM
Mixing Thinset Mortars david nicko Tile Forum/Advice Board 15 09-19-2009 05:40 PM
Which Mapei Thinset? Doral Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 04-06-2007 07:11 PM
Mapei vs C-Cure full contact mortars Tilepaver Professionals' Hangout 3 08-10-2006 06:09 AM
Mapei thinset preference? pigsrunfree Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 07-02-2004 01:20 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:41 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2014 John Bridge & Associates, LLC