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Old 09-25-2011, 07:28 PM   #31
gueuzeman
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Brigit- thanks for the details, 3 foot wide is my preferred width, though as you said for some applications the 1 and 2 foot are the right thing.

Confused about the following-
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Originally Posted by Brigit
having a solid water proof sheet of metallized polyester built in. Speed Flex offers no moisture management.
Sounds like a contradiction, or maybe I should be asking what exactly "metallized polyester" is.

One concern with most sheet membranes is vapor management on a damp slab, which is why I like Ditra on most (but not all) slabs. But most of my installs are on wood, so that isn't an issue.

19 pounds for a 225 roll? Is it made of helium? How thick is it? (mils)
The stuff I have been using weighed about 75 lbs. a roll, IIRC.

talk to you soon!

.
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:36 AM   #32
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I've attached a data sheet for your reference, Gueuzeman. Amazingly it is s full 40 mil thickness. Devcom inverts the design. Instead of having 30 mils of glue, and 10 mils of adhesive, we do the opposite. As they say, "there's no guts in glue"...our product is actually stronger (due to the fact that it's 80% membrane) than our competition's. I am not sure what you were referencing re the moisture management confusion (Speed Flex is our competition - part of the Flex Guard program...their product has no barrier properties for moisture - it's just a breathable nonwoven and glue...ours has an aluminum/foil like layer, called metpet (metallized polyester) that is a water tight layer of polyester film, providing the water tight properties featured in our GS-4000CSI membrane. Hope that helps clarify. Thanks Gueuzeman! Bri.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:38 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigit
Devcom inverts the design. Instead of having 30 mils of glue, and 10 mils of adhesive, we do the opposite.
I can certainly see how a few might have been confused with the product name switch in the previous comment, but I think you'll manage to confuse everyone with that one, Brigit.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:14 AM   #34
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My apologies. Most of the peel and stick products our there are around 40 mils thick - total. overall thickness This 40 mils is made up of glue (asphalt), a membrane to carry the glue, and a release liner (paper or film). Most designs are broken down as follows: approx 30-35 mils of glue - asphalt based adhesives (filled with nasty VOC's Solvents), around 5-7 mils of a nonwoven or a plastic membrane (facer sheet that carries the glue), and 3-5 mils of liner. This dense asphalt dramatically weighs down the product, and adds very little physical strength, in exchange for the % of weight it contributes to the overall product's weight. Devcom "flips" (inverts) the design, using 30+mils of reinforced membrane (much less dense), and it, in return, adds strength, without adding "dead glue weight" to the overall product. We sort of compare the design change to what we've seen with athletic shoes, mattresses, etc...products that have become lighter AND stronger, with improved designs over the years. Architects love it, as it lightens the floor load, while adding strength and killer crack suppression (up to 1/2 inch) in the process. Customers/installers love it because it's cheaper to ship, store, and easier to haul to the site. Chiropractors hate it!! Pretty nifty.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:23 AM   #35
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Brigit, I'm looking at all the data you're posting and still I'm not seeing anything that says the product meets the requirements of ANSI A118.12. What am I missing there?
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Old 09-26-2011, 11:52 AM   #36
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Not a thing. Sent you an older data sheet by mistake. My bad. Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:44 PM   #37
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Spoke with the Tech Director at Devcom. He said is would be O.K. to post this years ANSI A118.12 -TCNA results, rating GreenSkin, as a "High Performance Membrane," if you are interested in viewing them CX. Devcom updates most of their testing in June/July, just to keep current...please advise? Thanks!
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Old 09-26-2011, 04:24 PM   #38
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Always interested in seeing the test reports, Brigit. I'd be interested in the C-627 report, also.
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Old 09-26-2011, 05:44 PM   #39
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Kelly, Thanks for being on top of this and askin the right questions.

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Old 09-26-2011, 07:15 PM   #40
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Here are our most recent ANSI A118.12 Crack S/I results from TCNA. Scott, Devcom's TD, did ask me to send all future test results, directly to prospective customers, upon their request, so we know specifically where our technical information is going. He runs a pretty tight shop. Thanks, guys.
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:56 PM   #41
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That's not uncommon, Brigit. You can just attach the C-627 Test Report when you reply to the email I sent you concerning your advertising request, if you like.
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Kelly, Thanks for being on top of this and askin the right questions.
If I pretend to have learned a little something over the years it helps keep Gobis off my ass, Hammy.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:28 PM   #42
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I got a few sample pieces today, Thanks Brigit

The stuff seems pretty stretchy but then again Hydroban and Aqua Defense are pretty stretchy also when you pull them with your hands. I haven't played around with cutting it or anything yet.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:34 PM   #43
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11:30 pm, just checking in. Long day- I think I need to read these technical things when I'm a bit fresher.

But thanks for the info! Whatever ANSI A118.12 is.

My vapor management comment was about a damp slab pushing moisture up, and a peel and stick membranes ability to deal with that without being forced off the slab, If it is a "waterproof" product, what happens?

I'm going to bed.


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Old 09-26-2011, 09:43 PM   #44
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I know that solid membranes are compared to liquid applied (Aq-def & H-ban, and others) all the time. It is difficult to call them apples w/ apples comparison, since all L-applied is a multi-step application. Even the notion of "stetchy" when comparing a solid, roll out, peel & stick membrane with a "solidified" liquid applied roll on, is a bit of a tough one. I can't knock Lat or Map for their L-applied. They do a very good job. It's sort of an apples w/ peaches...as opposed to an apples w/ apples comparison. My only plug is that we are about half the install time of L-applied...and about 1/3 the install time of Ditra...just sweep, peel, stick and go = $$! Other than that...they are pros at what they do...Good chat guys!
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:53 PM   #45
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Agreed, Brigit! That's why I love the peel and stick better than the liquids or ditra on wood. Different things for different apps. Fast and clean, ready to set tile right now!
I see a roll in my very short term future, I've been hoarding my speed-flex....

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