8 years later - Now we have a big mess

[Emil Volk]

Emil here: Yes ; the mud you show looks to be too dry.....more like the mud I am working with today J.B. formulation (Quickrete sand topping mix and sand (2:1)). When I first worked with thsi mud I was suspicious that it was too dry until I did compress it in between my hands to a snow ball. That worked for me since I saw some photos of the mud snowballs.

I hope Jim sees my message and posts to you. So if your mud is too dry then should it be more like the consistency of a heavy paste? More like thin set in fact?

EMIL

[Tiger Mountain Tile Inc]

What concerns me, also, is the fact that it gives. I can't think of any reason that it would do this unless there are voids in it somewhere. Also the top has big grooved channels running the length of it which doesn't look good to me either.

I'm skeptical. I don't think it's right. I wish I could be of more help. I will check back later.

[Tiger Mountain Tile Inc]

On second thought, I went back and looked at the pictures again. It still needs to dry and this may explain the "give" to it. I would leave it alone and check back in the morning.

[Emil Volk]

I looked at your reference and appreciate it very much.

Well it looks like when I get to my curb then I will have have the results you get. So if it is more water needed to enable you to work the mud as a homogeneous sticky paste and mould it to form the curb then I will have to look at the formulation with your experiences in mind.

This is very disappointing result, but hopefully next attempt will be a success and we will find out exactly how to do this step.


EMIL

[steventhomas42]

OK, so based on Jim and CX's last couple of posts, I want to make sure I am adequately explaining what I have. I have posted a YouTube video (shot with my iPod, so not Academy award quality).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2aWm7c5I94

Take a look/listen at this and see what you think.

[Houston Remodeler]

Thanks for the video Steve it was a big help.

Half way through what came to mind more than anything was all the cracking of the ceement. If there were cracks / joints anywhere else in the shower, we'd be telling you to mesh tape and thinset over it. I'm not sure if you have the room for that under your tile or if that would be the best route to go from here. Perhaps another pro will chime in. The worry for me is the grout joints will crack in the same place as the curb ceement.

I will say if this were my curb for a customer of mine, I'd be re-doing it. Its a cheap lesson and makes for sleeping well at night.

EDIT; I'd also ceement the area under the missing drywall to the left of the curb. That way when the water escapes the shower it doesn't rot out the drywall so fast.

[Emil Volk]

Brilliant video! Everything is clear. I think you used as Ipad not an Ipod. In general it does look better this morning, but of course the top is a big concern.

The professionals should be able to advise on action steps.

Since I will be doing a curb I am interested in avoiding this situation and would like to hear a diagnosis of what caused it?

Was it lack of homogeneity of the cement-lack of water?

I have a Sony camera that does video so I am stimulated to try it out.
Look forward to seeing comments from experienced folks,

EMIL

[cx]

I'm not seeing any cracks in the curb mud, Paul. I see voids where he apparently used forms rather than trowling the surfaces flat, but I don't see the cracks. What am I missing?

I'd rather the top had been filled better in that regard, but I'm not seeing that as fatal.

Waterproofing and mudding the missing area at the curb end would also be my preference over adding a sheetrock patch.

Could have done any number of new curbs while we been waiting to determine the condition of that one, but I think it'll survive if he continues on with the project, 'specially since there could be disquiet on the home front.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[steventhomas42]

Originally Posted by CabotAndRowe.com

Thanks for the video Steve it was a big help.

Half way through what came to mind more than anything was all the cracking of the ceement. If there were cracks / joints anywhere else in the shower, we'd be telling you to mesh tape and thinset over it. I'm not sure if you have the room for that under your tile or if that would be the best route to go from here. Perhaps another pro will chime in. The worry for me is the grout joints will crack in the same place as the curb ceement.

Glad it served its purpose.

As for the cracks, I'm going through the video once more.

At 0:53 in the video, what you see on the bottom edge is not a crack. It is just a small section that was scraped away when we were using the shop-vac to remove debris; apparently the cement was still soft enough that the plastic hose scraped away some surface cement.

At 0:55, the top right edge is also not cracked, although it is a little valley that I think was caused by me wiggling the float as I lifted it off the mud. It's shallow enough to fill it with thinset when tiling.

At 1:30, I hear some "hollowness" when I am tapping the inside of the curb. It's not so evident when you are listening from outside the shower, but the microphone on the iPod picked it up pretty well. This is an area of concern for me.

Finally, all of the cracks on the top are those which result from the fact that the only mud on the top is that which I applied to hold my straightedge in place. The planned thinset layer plus the buildup to finish the top would cover all of those. Therefore, there will be no grout lines associated with those areas.

Originally Posted by CabotAndRowe.com

I will say if this were my curb for a customer of mine, I'd be re-doing it. Its a cheap lesson and makes for sleeping well at night.

EDIT; I'd also ceement the area under the missing drywall to the left of the curb. That way when the water escapes the shower it doesn't rot out the drywall so fast.

The only reason I haven't pulled it out yet is that CX said to give it a few days before I write it off. Now I just need to call CX's attention to the video!

Good call on the corner. We'll be tiling that entire section, so that is doable. I guess I need to tack a square of lath in on top of those 2x4s first to make it adhere.

[steventhomas42]

And apparently cx heard me thinking that I needed him and he showed up while I was typing. He's better than Batman.

Originally Posted by cx

I'm not seeing any cracks in the curb mud, Paul. I see voids where he apparently used forms rather than trowling the surfaces flat, but I don't see the cracks. What am I missing?

I'd rather the top had been filled better in that regard, but I'm not seeing that as fatal.

Waterproofing and mudding the missing area at the curb end would also be my preference over adding a sheetrock patch.

Could have done any number of new curbs while we been waiting to determine the condition of that one, but I think it'll survive if he continues on with the project, 'specially since there could be disquiet on the home front.

Thanks for the vote. I'm going to move forward with the curb this evening.

Oh and you probably could have done several curbs in this time, but my helper and I haven't been home at the same time in two days!

[steventhomas42]

Changing the subject for a moment...

In another thread recently, Bob was heard to say:

Originally Posted by bbcamp

I would use epoxy if the shelf must be installed on the face of existing tiles.

I didn't want to threadjack, so I'm posting this question in my own project thread.

Can you give me some examples of shelves designed to be installed on the face of existing tiles without drilling? Links would be appreciated.

[steventhomas42]

Wow, I don't like having this many of my own messages in a row here, but now's when the questions are coming up, so I need to document them before I forget them.

When John says:

Originally Posted by John Bridge

Smear a little thin set on the dry mortar and add more mortar to the curb, raking the new mortar off flush with the tops of the sides.

Are we talking just a smooth, thin buttering of thinset, or does it need a texture like with a v-notch trowel?

[cx]

Smooth, thin coating, but it ain't gotta be smooth. I make my thinset mortar the texture of pancake batter when using it for such mud bonding operations. Known to apply it with a masonry brush.

Some folks actually notch theirs on the surface.

I don't know nothin' about shower shelves designed to be epoxied over existing tile.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[Tiger Mountain Tile Inc]

Steve, when you tap on the inside of the curb, does it still sound hollow- now that it's dried?

The big channels,cracks,voids on the curb shouldn't be a problem as long as it's just a void and not from movement.

[steventhomas42]

Originally Posted by Tiger Mountain Tile Inc

Steve, when you tap on the inside of the curb, does it still sound hollow- now that it's dried?

Jim, I just went in and tapped it again. There are two places that have a distinctly different sound than the rest. I can't be 100% confident there. Am I right to be concerned here?