Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile Tile Monthly Magazine

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books   Buy a TYW Shirt

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Professionals' Hangout

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-04-2010, 06:57 AM   #1
andybuildz
Registered User
 
andybuildz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 220
Kerdi vs Redgard'n Hydroban

Been wondering.....I've used Kerdi on more than a cpl of dozen showers I've built so I'm not new to the stuff and I do love it although it's hard convincing customers why they need to spend an extra $600-$1000+ to install the stuff.
It gets me to thinking each time I do it why not just paint the walls with a cpl of coats of Redgard or Hydroban or similar.

I mean...I NEVER had a leak in a shower in all the years I've been doing this.
The one thing I love about Kerdi is not so much the guarantee of no leaks cuz I don't worry about that..what I love is the fact that any moisture that gets behind the tile/CBU causes mold in the grout lines. The Kerdi pretty much stops that but so would Redgard for a whole lot less money and time.

What is it that I'm not getting about Kerdi after installing it all these years?...and when a customer asks me why their shower might leak after I build them a bathroom what does one say to that?

I'm jus' trin' to play devils advocate here. so don't be jumpin' down my throat...LOL ( I can already hear it b/4 I even hit the post button...lol)
__________________
WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Andy Clifford
andybuildz is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-04-2010, 07:09 AM   #2
jgleason
Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers)
 
jgleason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weare, NH & Clayton, NY
Posts: 8,617
I moved this over to the Pro area where it belongs.

My opinion - nothing wrong with Hydroban, or even Redgard. Lots of tools out there to get a job done. Use the ones that work best for you and your client.

I don't know how you come up to $600-$1000 for Kerdi. Don't buy the full kit. Buy the Drain, Kband, Kerdi, do a mud slope and it'll cost about $400 for a 3'x3' shower.

One advantage with Kerdi - you can install it and begin tiling immediately. With the liquids you need multiple coats and have to give it time to dry before tiling.
jgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 07:17 AM   #3
remodel123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Got a question for the Kerdi guys. Not to high jack the post. I here that you can "tile right after you install the Kerdi" point all the time.If you need to use water to mix the thin set that you are using to install the Kerdi, where does that moisture go? If you are putting a "waterproof" barrier OVER it the only way it could go is into the wall substrate? Right? Isn't that the place your trying to protect? AND Kerdi is suitable to be installed over "regular drywall" with paper face and no water resistant capabilities.

Don't see this as an attack, just confused because I have never used it before
__________________
Chad
remodel123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 07:32 AM   #4
merkretetyler
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 188
andybuildz,

You are right the sheet membrane is a great way to go. The ability to start tiling immediately after installing it can be a major benefit.

I would suggest you try a good liquid waterproofing membrane on your next project. I personally believe in the fabric reinforcement in critical areas. The flashing fabric does add strength to the installation in critical areas like changes of plane also bridge dissimilar materials like from the mud bed or preslope to the drain itself but more important controls the proper depth of the liquid membranes.

The really nice thing about liquid membranes is the low profile, no overlapping seams to be floated out and it conforms to the shapes of walls, seats, niches, etc. so well.

We have fiber reinforced sheet, peel and stick and liquids waterproof membranes in our MK tool box.

Sincerely,
__________________
Jim Whitfield FCSI, CCPR, CTC, LEED AP

No Longer Merkrete / Parex USA
merkretetyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 07:33 AM   #5
andybuildz
Registered User
 
andybuildz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 220
Chad...once the Kerdi is up no water can penetrate it. the water in the thinset absorbs into the CBU when you're using it to install the Kerdi then evaporates but after that one time nothing else should get through.

and Jgleason- Right..the Kerdi alone w/o the kit should cost about $400 for a 3x3 shower...and how much do you charge to install it?
t
Thats where I come up with $600-$1000++ I ain't installing it..and guaranteeing my work..for free.
Good point about being able to tile immediately after you install the Kerdi..if there's actually time left in that day anyway...lol. Yer right about the Redgard'n such. You do in fact have to have the time to wait a day or two after you coat it a cpl of times.
__________________
WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Andy Clifford
andybuildz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 07:40 AM   #6
Brad Denny
Tile Contractor Nashville, TN
 
Brad Denny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Joelton, TN
Posts: 3,979
Chad, unmodified mortar doesn't need air to cure. It will set up between two dense surfaces. I believe cx put some unmod inna sealed baggie and it set up, where a latex mod did not.

I like the idea of Kerdi in showers where steam cannot escape or specifically steam showers (lower perm rating), or places where the end user may continuously spray the walls. I feel if it is a typical shower the Hydroban is too convenient and cost effective not to use. It is an excellent product. I like Kerdi, don't get me wrong, but all of our work is by bid, so unless Kerdi is specified it doesn't compete.
__________________
Brad


Brad Denny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 07:44 AM   #7
gueuzeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 8,672


.
gueuzeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 08:24 AM   #8
jgleason
Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers)
 
jgleason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weare, NH & Clayton, NY
Posts: 8,617
Don't be shy Gueze, this is the pro hangout.

There are advantages and disadvantages with every product you choose. For the pros there are many factors that will come into play when choosing which products to use on any given installation.
jgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 08:40 AM   #9
Arimert
Registered User
 
Arimert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lake city fl
Posts: 374
I like liquids,there cheaper then kerdi and get the job
done.more money in my pocket.
__________________
Amos
ADR Tile&Stone. Certified tile installer#852
Arimert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 09:00 AM   #10
Levi the Tile Guy
Tile and Stone Contractor
 
Levi the Tile Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Posts: 5,550
I have almost completely gotten away from Kerdi I never really cared for installing it, and hated the buildup. There is nothing wrong with a good liquid like Hydroban or AquaDefence. I don't know that I would trust watterproofing an entire shower with redguard (especially the pan)
__________________
Levi The Tile Guy


Grand Junction, Colorado Tile and Stone installation

Levi the Tile Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 09:06 AM   #11
irish tileguy in michigan
Tile Contractor -- S.E. Michigan
 
irish tileguy in michigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Livonia and Farmington Hills, Mi.
Posts: 3,221
Yea, ive done dozens of kerdi showers but havent done one for months now, all my showers now are pre-slope, Noble pvc liner, final mud bed and curb with hydroban or hydrobarrier on the walls and curb.
__________________
Steve
Maloney Tile and Marble
Farmington Hills & Livonia, Mi.



Laticrete Hydroban & Schluter Kerdi shower installs
Custom installation of Tile and stone
irish tileguy in michigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 09:13 AM   #12
andybuildz
Registered User
 
andybuildz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 220
I don't particularly care for installing Kerdi either but I hate cleaning out my grout sponges too so....ya gotta do whatcha gotta do to make the job right while at the same time making money.

It was in another forum maybe a year or so back I mentioned that I only Kerdi'd a shower mud pan and up the walls a half a foot and MANNNNN were some people all over me for that. Like I was a hack for not doing all the walls as well. I do think we can apply the products so they're still effective especially VS doing not much else like most installers I see around. I rarely see anyone use Kerdi or even Redgard/Hydroban around here. I see it being used more in photos on this this and a few other forums than I do in real life. I personally wouldn't think of not using it in my own bathrooms and I also always try and sell it to customers as being the best job imo...I just won't push hard.
__________________
WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Andy Clifford
andybuildz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 09:36 AM   #13
Apollo
Registered User
 
Apollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 75
For me the kerdi saves me time. That's the biggest draw for me. I can have a typical 4' X 4" Shower prepped and ready for tile in 6-8 hours with the kerdi shower pan or the next day with a drypack. Where with a traditional pan it's one day preslope, one day pvc/final slope...I guess it depends on how much your time is worth to you.

I like being able to tell a customer I can have their job done in a week rather than a week and a half...that is important to someone living in a house with only 1 shower.. It's true you are transfering your labor rate into material costs, but for me it evens out in time savings. Plus the flexibility of being able to tile the walls and put the pan in later or vise versa is very important in b3eing able to work full days instead of a couple hours here and a couple hours there.
__________________
Shane
Apollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #14
Kilauea
*L.T.*
 
Kilauea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: East TX
Posts: 3,050
For me,it's a no brainer.

Out chere in east Tex,ain't too much money goin 'round,and I don't reckon folks wanna fork over that extry 500-1000$ for a sheet memrane.Be it orange,purlple,etc.

Also,from a labor perspective,I just don't have the time nor patience for origami projects in my showers,niches,curbs etc.Also,build up from sheet membranes can cause unsatisfactory installation scenarios.

I suggest a thorough page by page examination of the Frankengeuze thread
Attached Images
    
__________________
*L.T.*
tandctile-dot-net

2nd generation tile installer

Quote:
The apprentice rocket scientist was having a hard time programming the launching sequence.His professor watched impaitently and said,"C'mon its not tilesetting!!!"
Kilauea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 11:37 AM   #15
tile dummy
scooter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: stroudsburg Pa.
Posts: 264
Hey L.T. wheres your work boots
__________________
scott
tile dummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Buy John's New Book!   Tile Your World Online Store   Contractors Direct Tile Tool Store   Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kerdi Orange Membrane with HydroBan ? Josh T Tile Forum/Advice Board 18 01-10-2010 12:29 AM
Learning as I go, Kerdi, Densguard, Hydroban, my shower project Dan Ward Tile Forum/Advice Board 24 12-31-2009 08:47 AM
Hydroban + Kerdi Drain = Bad??? rocjr Tile Forum/Advice Board 74 04-22-2009 05:45 AM
HydroBan toglo7777 Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 04-05-2007 08:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009 John Bridge & Associates, LLC