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Old 12-04-2010, 07:57 AM   #1
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Kerdi vs Redgard'n Hydroban

Been wondering.....I've used Kerdi on more than a cpl of dozen showers I've built so I'm not new to the stuff and I do love it although it's hard convincing customers why they need to spend an extra $600-$1000+ to install the stuff.
It gets me to thinking each time I do it why not just paint the walls with a cpl of coats of Redgard or Hydroban or similar.

I mean...I NEVER had a leak in a shower in all the years I've been doing this.
The one thing I love about Kerdi is not so much the guarantee of no leaks cuz I don't worry about that..what I love is the fact that any moisture that gets behind the tile/CBU causes mold in the grout lines. The Kerdi pretty much stops that but so would Redgard for a whole lot less money and time.

What is it that I'm not getting about Kerdi after installing it all these years?...and when a customer asks me why their shower might leak after I build them a bathroom what does one say to that?

I'm jus' trin' to play devils advocate here. so don't be jumpin' down my throat...LOL ( I can already hear it b/4 I even hit the post button...lol)

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Old 12-04-2010, 08:09 AM   #2
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I moved this over to the Pro area where it belongs.

My opinion - nothing wrong with Hydroban, or even Redgard. Lots of tools out there to get a job done. Use the ones that work best for you and your client.

I don't know how you come up to $600-$1000 for Kerdi. Don't buy the full kit. Buy the Drain, Kband, Kerdi, do a mud slope and it'll cost about $400 for a 3'x3' shower.

One advantage with Kerdi - you can install it and begin tiling immediately. With the liquids you need multiple coats and have to give it time to dry before tiling.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:17 AM   #3
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Got a question for the Kerdi guys. Not to high jack the post. I here that you can "tile right after you install the Kerdi" point all the time.If you need to use water to mix the thin set that you are using to install the Kerdi, where does that moisture go? If you are putting a "waterproof" barrier OVER it the only way it could go is into the wall substrate? Right? Isn't that the place your trying to protect? AND Kerdi is suitable to be installed over "regular drywall" with paper face and no water resistant capabilities.

Don't see this as an attack, just confused because I have never used it before
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:32 AM   #4
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You are right the sheet membrane is a great way to go. The ability to start tiling immediately after installing it can be a major benefit.

I would suggest you try a good liquid waterproofing membrane on your next project. I personally believe in the fabric reinforcement in critical areas. The flashing fabric does add strength to the installation in critical areas like changes of plane also bridge dissimilar materials like from the mud bed or preslope to the drain itself but more important controls the proper depth of the liquid membranes.

The really nice thing about liquid membranes is the low profile, no overlapping seams to be floated out and it conforms to the shapes of walls, seats, niches, etc. so well.

We have fiber reinforced sheet, peel and stick and liquids waterproof membranes in our MK tool box.

Jim Whitfield FCSI, CCPR, CTC, LEED AP

No Longer Merkrete / Parex USA
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:33 AM   #5
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Chad...once the Kerdi is up no water can penetrate it. the water in the thinset absorbs into the CBU when you're using it to install the Kerdi then evaporates but after that one time nothing else should get through.

and Jgleason- Right..the Kerdi alone w/o the kit should cost about $400 for a 3x3 shower...and how much do you charge to install it?
Thats where I come up with $600-$1000++ I ain't installing it..and guaranteeing my work..for free.
Good point about being able to tile immediately after you install the Kerdi..if there's actually time left in that day anyway...lol. Yer right about the Redgard'n such. You do in fact have to have the time to wait a day or two after you coat it a cpl of times.

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Old 12-04-2010, 08:40 AM   #6
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Chad, unmodified mortar doesn't need air to cure. It will set up between two dense surfaces. I believe cx put some unmod inna sealed baggie and it set up, where a latex mod did not.

I like the idea of Kerdi in showers where steam cannot escape or specifically steam showers (lower perm rating), or places where the end user may continuously spray the walls. I feel if it is a typical shower the Hydroban is too convenient and cost effective not to use. It is an excellent product. I like Kerdi, don't get me wrong, but all of our work is by bid, so unless Kerdi is specified it doesn't compete.

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Old 12-04-2010, 08:44 AM   #7
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:24 AM   #8
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Don't be shy Gueze, this is the pro hangout.

There are advantages and disadvantages with every product you choose. For the pros there are many factors that will come into play when choosing which products to use on any given installation.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:40 AM   #9
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I like liquids,there cheaper then kerdi and get the job
done.more money in my pocket.
ADR Tile&Stone. Certified tile installer#852
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:00 AM   #10
Levi the Tile Guy
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I have almost completely gotten away from Kerdi I never really cared for installing it, and hated the buildup. There is nothing wrong with a good liquid like Hydroban or AquaDefence. I don't know that I would trust watterproofing an entire shower with redguard (especially the pan)
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:06 AM   #11
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Yea, ive done dozens of kerdi showers but havent done one for months now, all my showers now are pre-slope, Noble pvc liner, final mud bed and curb with hydroban or hydrobarrier on the walls and curb.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:13 AM   #12
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I don't particularly care for installing Kerdi either but I hate cleaning out my grout sponges too so....ya gotta do whatcha gotta do to make the job right while at the same time making money.

It was in another forum maybe a year or so back I mentioned that I only Kerdi'd a shower mud pan and up the walls a half a foot and MANNNNN were some people all over me for that. Like I was a hack for not doing all the walls as well. I do think we can apply the products so they're still effective especially VS doing not much else like most installers I see around. I rarely see anyone use Kerdi or even Redgard/Hydroban around here. I see it being used more in photos on this this and a few other forums than I do in real life. I personally wouldn't think of not using it in my own bathrooms and I also always try and sell it to customers as being the best job imo...I just won't push hard.

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Old 12-04-2010, 10:36 AM   #13
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For me the kerdi saves me time. That's the biggest draw for me. I can have a typical 4' X 4" Shower prepped and ready for tile in 6-8 hours with the kerdi shower pan or the next day with a drypack. Where with a traditional pan it's one day preslope, one day pvc/final slope...I guess it depends on how much your time is worth to you.

I like being able to tell a customer I can have their job done in a week rather than a week and a half...that is important to someone living in a house with only 1 shower.. It's true you are transfering your labor rate into material costs, but for me it evens out in time savings. Plus the flexibility of being able to tile the walls and put the pan in later or vise versa is very important in b3eing able to work full days instead of a couple hours here and a couple hours there.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:22 AM   #14
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For me,it's a no brainer.

Out chere in east Tex,ain't too much money goin 'round,and I don't reckon folks wanna fork over that extry 500-1000$ for a sheet memrane.Be it orange,purlple,etc.

Also,from a labor perspective,I just don't have the time nor patience for origami projects in my showers,niches,curbs etc.Also,build up from sheet membranes can cause unsatisfactory installation scenarios.

I suggest a thorough page by page examination of the Frankengeuze thread
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:37 PM   #15
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Hey L.T. wheres your work boots
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