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Old 04-06-2010, 11:32 AM   #1
wood craftsman
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New re-grout showing yellow stains in spots.

I recently regrouted our tub shower with Laticrete 1644 bright white unsanded grout mixed with 1776 Grout enhancer. Shortly after applying the grout and removing the excess a few areas appeared to have yellow stains appearing in the grout. Those spots I removed the grout and regrouted. They looked ok at first. Over the course of several days (its now been 5 days) a significant number of areas have shown up to be discolored. These are mostly along the back of the tub wall, lower down and on the faucet end. They may be places where I sprayed with bleach or all of the old grout was removed. The shower has not been used yet, its been 7 days since regrouting.

To begin there were some small areas missing grout and some of the old caulk had some mild mildew that had been treated with bleach.

bleach: I sprayed a diluted solution of bleach and used a tooth brush on those open area to kill any mildew. Over the course of the next 3 days I ran a dehumidifier in the bathroom while I removed the grout to make sure the wall behind was dry.

Removing old grout: I removed the old grout as much as I could us a utility knife (nothing else would fit in the grooves). Some of the areas all of the grout was removed. These seem to relate to the discoloration areas now I think. Other areas I removed enough for the new grout to hold. ~ 1/16"- 1/8". Overall the tub/shower was not used for 6 days before it was regrouted.

The regrouting was done per the instructions, excess wiped off with clean sponges after ~ 10 mins, and the haze removed after 2 hours. Most of the walls look great.

What has caused the yellow stains? What can I do about them? The grout has not been sealed yet.

Laticrete has recommended using grout colorant. I'm not sure if that will fix the problem. I'd rather not remove and regrout as it could still happen.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:49 PM   #2
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You've already contacted Laticrete's tech support folks and they suggest grout colorant? That will be permanent and probably effective.

The issues are worse where you remove all the grout. It sounds like there was more moisture back there than you thought, and it is leaching into the grout. It's worse where your new grout goes completely to the back.

I can't argue with the Laticrete guys. They know their product line better than anyone.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:33 AM   #3
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bbcamp,

I think your explanation of why its worse where more grout was removed makes since. The thing that bothers me is that there was no evidence of much moisture behind the tile - other than a few places of missing grout, and it was dried intensely for 3 days with dehumidifier than another 3 days.

if that wasn't enough, how do professionals every get a good looking re-grout job? The methods I had read recommended 3 days drying. Other than the grout coming out in a few places and mild discoloration of the caulk this shower was in good shape.

The grout was never sealed b/c the tile person said it didn't make any difference and was a waste of time.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:11 PM   #4
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Help, trouble applying grout colorant

It been about 4 weeks since the shower was grouted and I'm trying to apply the grout colorant. I'm sorry for asking how to do this b/c I'm sure its been discussed a lot but after spending a few hours searching here and the web I'm asking for help.

Problem: when I apply the colorant I've not been able to get the excess off without some coming off the grout or it looks like a mess. I've seen videos that just apply and wipe off.

I'm using R&D grout finish. Anyone used this? I tried doing a seach on it w/o luck. I'm wondering if their product behaves different than many of the others. Their instructions are to "lay a slightly damp sponge across the join. Pull the sponge toward you applying gentle pressure on either side. do not wipe the joint. Wipe ~ 6-8" at a time. Wipe and excess off as you go." It takes several passes to get the excess off, and then some of it has come off the grout. I have a call into the company but not holding my breath for the return cll.
I've also tried a method (by Carter) that rubs the scrubbie sponge circularly to get most of excess, then 30-60 minutes later use a stiff brush across the joint - this looks somewhat promising but very hard not to remove too much.

Going crazy..., no wait already there!
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:08 AM   #5
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trouble appling R&D grout finish colorant

I posted this in another thread yesterday
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=83497

Which gives the full story of the regrouting and stain colorant problem however I think that this forum may be the better place.

I'm sure some one has described how to apply colorant here but I can't find it so sorry for duplication. Basically, no mater what method I try, either too much colorant is left on or there are spot with "none", very little on the grout.
The videos i've watch make it look just apply and wipe off easy
Thanks
Lary.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:47 AM   #6
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Update - the company did call

Before anyone spends too much time answering, I wanted to post that the company did call and thinks a) I may not have gotten the grout clean enough despite daily wiping and clean as recommend and b) to use "the finger method" of spreading it. I'm going to go try that.

Should/ (is there?) be a description of all this in the "Liberry"?
thanks
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:49 AM   #7
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R&D called to help

(I posted a related post in the Cleaning Restoration, Sealing forum)

Before anyone spends too much time answering, I wanted to post that the company did call and thinks a) I may not have gotten the grout clean enough despite daily wiping and clean as recommend and b) to use "the finger method" of spreading it. I'm going to go try that.

Should/ (is there?) be a description of all this in the "Liberry"?
thanks
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:02 AM   #8
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I don't know, Lary. I've been here since '02, and when we've sent folks to use a colorant, we never hear back from them. So either it works well for them, or it kills them. Or sumthin'.

If you want to write up a review of your experience, we'll be glad to consider it for the Liberry. Do take lots of pictures!
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:12 AM   #9
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Posting the same questions in more than one forum leads to confusion and duplication of effort on the part of our all-volunteer army of helpers, Lary, so I've combined your threads here.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:33 AM   #10
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Thanks CX

I realize posting in two places is confusing and I certainly don't want to waste anyone's time. Thats one of the reasons I posted the link to the older post.

I'm new to this forum and not sure if people tend to read by forum or under "new post". When I came back the next day I could not see my post in the "new post" or the forum (I assume there were so many other post it got shoved down) and Being somewhat desparate (I need this shower done before the wife gets home tomorrow!! ) I thought be more appropriate in the sealing forum.

I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:29 PM   #11
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This is classic case of not drying out the shower before applying new grout. The water in the walls discolored the grout. You better quit with the colorsealing and re regrout.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:24 AM   #12
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Grout colorant sealing

Troy, although I don't doubt you are correct, I wonder how does one know when its dry enough. It had 3 days of a dehumidifier on full in a very small space and 2 more days while getting the remaining grout out. There were very few spots of missing grout originally. How do professional's deal with this long delay especially when the family is without a bathroom? Although we do have another bath, I was reluctant to redue the grout b/c there's no guarantee it wouldn't happen again. Troy, thanks for the comment, I've been meaning to come back and show how it turned out.

I have already completed the colorant application it is reasonably "successful".
The first picture shows and overview of the worst stained area originally. Two coats of colorant were required for this area. Although the picture isn't great, overall it turned out good. Not as good a new grout. Also even though the sealeant was "bright white" it has a slight yellow tint as compared to the tile and the caulk. I think this is the biggest problem.

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The second picture is a detail of the above area. The arrow is point to one of several spots of darker area. This appears to be because the grout is slightly higher here and it is harder to leave as much sealant or the sealant isn't penetrating as well. The other thing i'm not real keen on with the colorant is it does have a somewhat painted on look. These are things most people wouldn't notice and you have to look close.

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my recommended grout/sealant procedure will be posted below.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:42 AM   #13
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Recommended procedure for DIY regrout and colorant

After careful consideration here's my recommendation for regrouting and or apply colorant:

Option A.
1. Preparation is critical:
a) select the proper day, perhaps a nice warm day on the deck,..
b) prepare a nice meal or make reservations
c) select the proper beverage of choice, perhaps wine, or mojito's
b) bring along paper and pencil
2. Education
a) with the stage set, explain to your significant other what's involved in getter a really nice looking bath.
b) present the 3 quotes you've gotten from good professionals
c) offer to take her/him to see the professional's work.
3. execution
a) explain how long it will the professional to do it
b) explain how long it will take you to do it (if you don't know ask those DIY's on this forum)
c) bring out the paper and pencil and ask them to help you prepare a list of all the OTHER things you could do for them with that time.
4. Follow through --- do ALL those other things, then site back and enjoy. Remember, there may be another DIY project that you'd rather NOT DIY.

Option B.
1. look back at option A.
2. well at least with the quotes you will know how much you're "saving"
3. keep careful track of cost and the time/labor so next time you can show the you saved like $2/hr!

Seriously.... Go do option A.
I have successfully torn all the tiles out, replaced board, and retiled and grouted the other bath about 10 years ago without any trouble. it is doable. But if you have tile with very small grout lines, and you value your sanity, there are better things to do with your life.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:11 AM   #14
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Lary,

I enjoyed your procedure checklist

Quote:
1. Preparation is critical:
This one is the biggie, preparation... often overlooked cause people always want it done yesterday, they rush, miss steps like the drink of your choice and relaxing, and planning out the day. Then after skipping steps they have to backtrack and in the end it takes way more time and that time could have been spent out on the side of a nice hillside with a picnic basket with your significant other or just cheeln with ya home skeelets

coloring grout is something I have not mastered myself, prolly cause I haven't done the homework on how to do it so your input is greatly appreciated, I would like to know I could do it if the need would arise.

The finger method, do explain....
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:16 AM   #15
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finger stricking method.

For those that can't do Option A above

Here are the instructions from R &D on the phone NOT those from the bottle. The parts in [brackets] are my comments or what I actually did. I was starting with a newly grouted (28 days) shower that had been wiped daily. Perhaps better cleaning would be nec. for older grout.

1. Showers are one of the hardest to do – soap scum etc.
2. 28 days after new grout
3. scrub the tile with a brush and water. (can be larger brush, can use a cleaner like fantastic if want but not necessary
a. [scrubbed with some 409 and milk brush (~ 4”diam)]
b. rinse with hot water
c. [wipe with hot water and sponge that was rinsed frequently. I wanted to be sure to get all the 409 and scum off]
d. [towel dry]
e. [allow to dry]
4. application:
a. [Adjust the applicator (I had a wheel) to fit down in groove to delivery the colorant to the grout rather than the tile. Do this BEFORE you’re half done! ]
b. run a bead down the joint
c. strike the joint with a finger (like doing caulk)
i. amount of pressure just enough so looks really nice in joint and thin on the tile, really thin film. Adjust the way the finger is held to get thin - paint like thickness on the grout and lightly on tile. [I sometimes had to wipe finger often if too much applied]
ii. as long as there's a thin area between the groove and the tile, the rest can be cleaned off “easily” and carefully.
iii. can use rag or finger to clean off most of excess but don’t rework the groove.
d. continue around doing all the verticles – stop when have enough that can remove excess in time. [I applied for 15-20 minutes, waited 10-20 for a total of 30-45 minutes before taking off where I started]
5. remove:
a. wait 30-35 mins (45 mins is better but slower)
b. Wet surface with a sponge – this helps break down the excess on the tile [also reduces risk of scratching tile and surface tension]
c. Remove excess carefully with the white scrubby side of the sponge go along side of joint not in it. [I tried to keep the scrubby rinsed clean but not wet]
6. Recoat only those areas that need it.
7.
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