Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-13-2010, 09:51 PM   #1
Colman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9
Colman's Powder Room Project

1st time laying tile. I'm starting with a small 6' x 3' pwder room (no shower or tub). I stripped the floor down to the tongue and groove subflooring. I was going to put down 1/4" hardibacker and then tile. Do I need to use 3/8" plywood uder the hardibacker?
__________________
Colman
Colman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-13-2010, 10:24 PM   #2
streamline
ryan
 
streamline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 79
as long as you thinset the hardyboard to the tongue and groove and nail or suggested screw into the joices you shouldn't need plywood.
__________________
ryan
streamline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 10:32 PM   #3
Jaz
Michigan Tile Pro
 
Jaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 1,719
Hi Coleman,

Sorry Ryan but you are wrong on this one. Coleman, you need plywood for sure. I would recommend 1/2" B/C underlayment, then the 1/4" Hardie with thinset, tape & fasteners etc.

Jaz
__________________
Troy, Michigan

Custom TileSetter (retired) - Method & Product suitability consulting

DIRECT Containers MARBLE from ITALY - GREECE; PERLATO di SICILIA - PERLATINO - BOTTICINO - THASSOS - SIVEC - VOLAKAS - ARETI WHITE - CALACATTA - others - Slabs - Tiles - Custom marmo.sicilia@yahoo.com
Jaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 10:57 PM   #4
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,739
correct
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 11:27 PM   #5
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 20,045
Hi Ryan,

We aren't perfect around here, but when advice is dispensed against industry standards or manufacturer's directions, it's generally corrected. Jaz and Paul are correct in the need for plywood (at least 3/8" CC exposure 1, plugged and sanded).

The reason for the plywood is dimensional stability. Solid wood, like that T&G subfloor, expands and contract too much to install backerboard directly over. Plywood is far more dimensionally stable.

Secondly, it sounds like you're recommending screwing the Hardibacker directly into the floor joists. That's also incorrect. The Hardibacker should be fastened to the plywood only with screws that won't penetrate into the joists...there are special screws Hardibacker sells that are only 1 1/4" to 1 5/8" to help out in this department...this method of install helps isolate some structural movement from reaching the tile assembly.

One last thing, Ryan...It sounds like you might be a pro. If so and you'd like to help out with answering questions, please introduce yourself in the Pro's Hangout. We're a friendly bunch, but like to know a bit about the folks who are dispensing advice on our forum.
__________________
Tonto Goldstein….. but my friends call me Bubba
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 11:41 PM   #6
streamline
ryan
 
streamline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 79
Thanks for explaining the reason for plywood..I will try to be more careful on the advice I give
__________________
ryan
streamline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 11:45 PM   #7
InJuxHurYlem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sacramento County
Posts: 62
So the plywood is screwed directly to the subfloor and then thinset under the hardibacker? Or do you put thinset under the plywood too?
__________________
Joshua
InJuxHurYlem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 11:49 PM   #8
streamline
ryan
 
streamline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 79
I would like to call myself a tile setter .I am finding myself to be humbled by this forum. I am realizing I have just touched the surface when it comes to flooring. Thanks for the wisdom

plywood would be nailed every four inches on seems and six to nine in center joices,no thinset under plywood. Im sure they would agree.
__________________
ryan

Last edited by streamline; 02-13-2010 at 11:58 PM.
streamline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 12:02 AM   #9
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,739
correct, no thinset or glue under the plwood
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 01:03 AM   #10
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 20,045
With that thin 3/8" plywood that doesn't like to lay flat, 4" O.C. around perimeter and 6" O.C. in the field. Take a look at this thread in the Liberry on Plywood Floors.

In the same thread, also note this article on Position of Underlayment written by Peter Nielsen and Dr. Woeste.
__________________
Tonto Goldstein….. but my friends call me Bubba
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 08:12 AM   #11
Colman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9
Thanks everyone for your detailed responses, very helpful. One thing I neglected to mention is that I only have 3/4" to lay flush with the toilet flange. Prior floor had tile around outside of toilet, It did not look good.
__________________
Colman
Colman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 08:35 AM   #12
Brian in San Diego
AC Specialist -- Schluterville Graduate
 
Brian in San Diego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Quinta, CA and Usk, WA
Posts: 10,767
Colman,

If you can't replace the toilet flange (but I would consider it if it's old) you can lay tile and be higher than the flange. Wouldn't make an inspector's day but it's done all the time. Then one would use a flange spacer to get the flange at the finished floor height.

Brian
__________________
Brian
If that doesn't work, I'll always think it should have.
Brian in San Diego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 09:58 AM   #13
jgleason
Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers)
 
jgleason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weare, NH
Posts: 8,848
But to be really correct the toilet flange is set on top of the finished flooring.



From the Liberry -Toilet Rough-In
jgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 12:04 PM   #14
Colman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9
This question is going to show my inexperience, but should I use nails or screws to fasten the plywood. I will be using the hardibacker screws to attach the hardibacker. Thanks.
__________________
Colman
Colman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 12:11 PM   #15
Edthedawg
Wannabe Engineer Old-house-nik DIY'er :)
 
Edthedawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NE CT
Posts: 2,062
Colman, get yourself some decking screws approx 1/4" max longer than the total thickness of the ply and the t&g boards below. then screw away, following the perimeter/field schedule given above.

I like Deckmate or Phillips-Squar-Driv screws from the box stores myself.
__________________
Ed

GO SOX!

Pleased to have helped design and build many of the residential projects featured here: http://www.tandtdev.com/portfolio.html
Edthedawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help me glam up a powder room lilacpimlico Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 07-06-2008 07:09 PM
1920's powder room project lyndam Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 09-26-2007 07:08 PM
Powder room redo... jgleason Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 11-13-2005 08:48 PM
Powder Room Floor James M Parks Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 01-13-2005 08:42 AM
Tile for the Powder Room kenkm Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 08-29-2004 08:30 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:55 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2014 John Bridge & Associates, LLC