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Old 10-12-2009, 08:35 PM   #1
drewmon
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Country Club Steamroom....

Trying to repair bad moisture problem in the clubhouse. Builder used 1x1 tile through out steam room, tile benches and two steam ports, they used durock (at least it looks like that) sloped ceiling. I know, not needed, I looked through the drop ceiling, there is a poly vapor barrier on top which is completely wet under it so the steam is wicking through the grout and through the durock walls, they are getting mold on opposite sides under the wall paper. Carpet is wet ....steam room has one heavy framed glass door similar to entrance door with no transom and no vent system. Steam runs all day for club members. I need to repair the problem. I think I will have to tear down the whole job seal durock and seal tile will that do the trick since it will be wet from morn. till night....any help thanks so much
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:28 PM   #2
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well drew i think u'll have to tear down the whole thing and see what else is going on, dont want to repeat the same thing they did.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:05 PM   #3
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yep tear it all down and build it with Kerdi, or Laticrete's system.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:16 PM   #4
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Welcome, Drew. If you're in the tile trade, helps to add a little biographical information to your Profile so folks can see what it is you do and in what part of the world you do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
they used durock (at least it looks like that) sloped ceiling. I know, not needed,
Not sure which part you're indicating is not needed there. They did need some sort of approved wallboard, and they did need a properly sloped ceiling, and seems they had both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
there is a poly vapor barrier on top which is completely wet under it so the steam is wicking through the grout and through the durock walls,
Steam is a vapor, doesn't need to do any wicking. Will happily pass through the grout and the CBU. If there is an excess of condensation on the inside face of the vapor barrier, it's doing its job, but that would indicate a probable lack of adequate insulation above the ceiling and behind the walls. You check for that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
they are getting mold on opposite sides under the wall paper. Carpet is wet
Would indicate to me that they really don't have an actual vapor barrier behind the CBU walls there. Shouldn't be that kind of moisture entering those wall cavities if the vapor barrier was properly installed.

You'd need a good deal more information to determine if that's repairable at all, I think, and I doubt you can do much with it short of a compete tear-out and re-do.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
seal durock and seal tile will that do the trick
What cx said about finding the true cause of their problems, and no - sealing alone will not solve whatever is ailing the steam room.

Sounds like there is a whole list of wrongs with the place.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:43 AM   #6
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Pull the plates off of all of the penetrations and check for proper sealing there before you crack into the walls. It's my belief that you should tear the whole thing out as there will be no way at all to ensure that you've tackled the mold issue until you've exposed everything touching this steamer.
Rebuild it with KERDI, Noble or WEDI with a coat of Aquafin's "Vaportight" . Since it's a commercial steamer, I don't know for certain that any of the other manufacturers will offer a warrantee without a whole bunch of teeny-tiny asterix.
Best of luck,
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:03 AM   #7
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Hi Drew,
Being the guy to fix something like this can be a great opportunity or your worse nightmare, depending on the depth of the client's pocket. To properly fix the problem, starting from scratch is the only real option. Here are a few links to manufacturers who suggest their product for steam showers. The Schluter link is actually an article that you could pass along to the client to explain what needs to be done to ensure that the problem will not arise again.


http://www.laticrete.com/Homeowners/TechnicalDesignManuals/TiledSteamRoomDesignManual/tabid/1686/Default.aspxhttp://

http://www.noblecompany.com/Portals/...out1%20(1).pdf
http://www.schluter.com/5232.aspx

I say that it could be a nightmare if the "Country Club" only wants to "patch it up". There's not a lot you can do here without covering yourself via documentation clarifying that you have informed them of what needs to be done, and aren't responsible for what you did do.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:42 AM   #8
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I think in that application, Shaughnn's suggestion of the Noble product would be your best bet. They've got sheet membranes that are very close to vapor proof. The Kerdi is also a technical vapor barrier, having a perm of only about 0.7, I believe, but the Noble TS is in the range of 0.05 as I recall. Not much vapor going through that in service.

The steam shower you're describing could not have been built to any standard I've seen published. There is just no effective method of making a vaporproof box using CBU with a poly sheet behind it. Too many fastener penetrations of the membrane, to begin with.

A CBU box can be made substantially vaporproof using a sheet membrane over the entire interior and properly sealing all plumbing and other penetrations. That's the direction I'd look in replacing that failed system. You could also eliminate the traditional pan and liner using the surface-applied membrane. Another big plus in my book.

Gotta agree with Brad's assessment of the possible/probable quagmire associated with just trying to fix what's there. Even the proper application of a vapor barrier on the existing interior leaves you with all sorts of mold problems behind the walls and ceilings - and the floor, for that matter. Don't think I'd wanna be involved in anything like that in today's litigious climate.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:34 AM   #9
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we have formed a committee to "re-write" the steam room details for the TCNA Handbook.
The first thing I would suggest is, if there is a Arch. or design pro. have them make the reccomendations. Some one needs to know, what membrane,how much insulation,type of door ,the lights,ect ect....
You are looking at a DO -OVER from what I have read.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e3
we have formed a committee to "re-write" the steam room details for the TCNA Handbook.
That will be a most useful undertaking, Eric. Maybe we can start a thread about that like James started about revisions to the movement joint standards?

I know y'all prolly have more input at this point than you can stand, but you never know when someone out there in Real World Land might come up with a little pearl of wisdom that's been overlooked, eh?
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:05 PM   #11
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I second the Handbook thread idea. Will you start it, Eric?
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:11 PM   #12
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Tryin' to get holt of James to conjure up a "standard" heading for these therads that concern the Standards Committee subjects, but he ain't answerin' his mail.

I'd like something that identifies them as that kinda thread with particular subject after that.

Like, maybe, Technical Discussion - Steam Shower. Or some such.

Help us think of somethin' catchy, Eric. Somethin' other than Noble, eh?
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
The first thing I would suggest is, if there is a Arch. or design pro. have them make the reccomendations. Some one needs to know, what membrane,how much insulation,type of door ,the lights,ect ect....
Excellent idea, couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:51 PM   #14
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I know this doesn't help much, but I remember a prominent voice in this industry replying to the question of what to do for a commercial steam room, he said "don't do it, just stay away.."

like i said, not much help...

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Old 10-20-2009, 09:04 AM   #15
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Eric, why does the membrane go behind the cbd for the ceiling?

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